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re: Everyone agrees the ancient Romans were the greatest ancient civilization....
Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:13 pm to Dotarian
Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:13 pm to Dotarian
quote:
The small-unit capabilities and maneuverability of the legion structure (including cohorts and centuries, along with cavalry) is what allowed them to conquer nearly everything they set their eyes on - thus acquiring the other inventions you mentioned.
Tactical equality is nothing to be sneezed at as well.
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Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:36 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Nobody like Brisket.
GTFO.
Just because you suck at cooking brisket...
Posted on 10/20/22 at 8:06 pm to Dotarian
quote:
You forgot to include military tactics and organization.
Not really. The Roman legion was developed from the existing greek phalanx. What Rome did was break the phalanx from a total infantry formation into effectively "small scale" phalanxes that were able to be moved independently of each other. They gained flexibility.
When the phalanx and the legion actually fought, the greeks didn't use Alexander's tactics (of using cavalry to control the flanks), instead just throwing their phalanx at the roman legions and cavalry... so the romans kicked their asses. If the greeks had been able to use cavalry to control the flanks, the phalanx would have destroyed the legion.
Probably the biggest advance from helenistic combat to roman combat was that helenistic commanders were at the front fighting, while roman commanders gave orders from the rear. This allowed them to better use the flexibility of the legions over the strength of the phalanx head on by being able to regularly outflank the greeks once Alexanders tactics of cavalry flanking had been abandoned.
The legion gained advantage any time they could force the greeks to abandon their long spears and fight with their swords (kopis). While the massed long spears could penetrate the roman shields, those shields were far superior to greek shields that gave the romans a huge advantage in hand to hand.
Regardless, neither would have stood up well to the Han armies in china. They had crossbows that would penetrate any armor that was available at the time. The crossbow didn't make it's way to europe until the 12 century. In the second century, the chinese army already had 50,000 crossbowmen.
We tend to be very western focused in what we learn about... but for a long time China was well ahead of the west in terms of technology, including military technology. China had cannon two centuries before it made it's way to europe.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:01 am to DawginSC
Lonnie is such a good poster, he's simultaneously managed to spur debate on both the proper application of barbeque sauce and the history of western civilization.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:13 am to SeaCay
quote:
Just because you suck at cooking brisket...
I don't cook Brisket.
The most populous country in the world, India, would agree with me...
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:14 am to Clark14
quote:
Hey Lonnie, is there a quiz after this thread? Go ahead and flunk me…haha
Gawd I hope not. I mean, some people just cant take a joke...
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:15 am to paperwasp
quote:
Lonnie is such a good poster, he's simultaneously managed to spur debate on both the proper application of barbeque sauce and the history of western civilization.
Well apparently neither the Aggies or the Gamecocks want to talk about football....
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:21 am to Lonnie Utah
1) I concur Mustard and pork are awesome, and forever shall be. Though my German tastes prefers this as old whole seed mustard on pork brats with saur kraut for most all of the fall period.
2) Rome is not usually considered an ancient civilization, as it after 1500 BC, it's sort of the turning point from ancient world to medieval world. Or maybe even teh first "modern" civilization, as the reversion after it fell is considered the dark ages...a return to the ancient...
3) I do like Mustard based BBQ, though Carolina style.
4) I do like brisket....anyone who does not like brisket should turn in their carnivore card and become a vegan...
5) I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest asncient civilization reward....
2) Rome is not usually considered an ancient civilization, as it after 1500 BC, it's sort of the turning point from ancient world to medieval world. Or maybe even teh first "modern" civilization, as the reversion after it fell is considered the dark ages...a return to the ancient...
3) I do like Mustard based BBQ, though Carolina style.
4) I do like brisket....anyone who does not like brisket should turn in their carnivore card and become a vegan...
5) I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest asncient civilization reward....
This post was edited on 10/21/22 at 8:24 am
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:51 am to Sgt_Nick_Fury
quote:
1) I concur Mustard and pork are awesome, and forever shall be. Though my German tastes prefers this as old whole seed mustard on pork brats with saur kraut for most all of the fall period.
It was German immigrants to central South Carolina who developed Mustard based BBQ sauce to begin with. Nobody marries Mustard and Pork quite like the Germans.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:12 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
It was German immigrants to central South Carolina who developed Mustard based BBQ sauce to begin with. Nobody marries Mustard and Pork quite like the Germans.
So Say we all!
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:15 am to Sgt_Nick_Fury
quote:
I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest ancient civilization reward
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:18 am to geauxnavybeatbama
quote:
Pork BBQ is better than beef BBQ
Counterpoint: nothing that comes out of a smoker is better than a good brisket.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:22 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Aggies follow the motto of the armies of ancient Greece
"Never leave a man's behind"
You joke, but there's truth to that. I remember my Western Civ class (with Dr. Karl Roider
) talking about the Greek phalanx. Fighters would stand side to side, with their shield covering half of their body and half of the body of the man next to him. And they intentionally put lovers next to each other in the line with idea that a man would fight harder to protect his partner, especially if he was responsible for shielding half of his body...
(Sidenote, Dr. Roider was the BOSS. He made a history-hater like me actually LIKE Western Civ. Changed my whole outlook on the topic).
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:25 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
The most populous country in the world, India, would agree with me...
And the most dominant religion in the world would declare a jihad on Chicken if they discovered this thread.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:26 am to wadewilson
quote:
And the most dominant religion in the world would declare a jihad on Chicken if they discovered this thread.
If I'm gonna be honest I'll put Applewood smoked Bird of any kind up there with pork or beef.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:29 am to SpotCheckBilly
Auburn fan, I just feel sorry for you little brother. Tech and Auburn damn sad, pathetic really.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:30 am to Sgt_Nick_Fury
quote:
I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest ancient civilization reward....
Wouldn't that be a little.....
...watery?
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:37 am to Sgt_Nick_Fury
quote:
So Say we all!
So says the guy who's heritage is 31% German...
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:39 am to Dotarian
quote:
Wouldn't that be a little.....
...watery?
At this point yes. However we don't know, and I need to know before I can rank their civilization.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:39 am to Dotarian
quote:
I remember my Western Civ class (with Dr. Karl Roider ) talking about the Greek phalanx. Fighters would stand side to side, with their shield covering half of their body and half of the body of the man next to him.
I think you're on to something...
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