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re: Could Saban recruit, and win championships, anywhere in the SEC?
Posted on 7/15/14 at 7:17 pm to scrooster
Posted on 7/15/14 at 7:17 pm to scrooster
i dont know if he would win championships at vandy or kentucky. depends on if the school is on board the same way alabama is with what he is trying to do. thats one of the things that makes alabama the place for him, the entire university is on board and helping, and whatever saban feels he needs to keep the program going in the right direction he gets. would vandy, kentycky, etc.. do the same? also, it doesnt hurt that bama has a tradition of football greatness second to none. i can say the lower tier schools would have probably their greatest recruiting andon field success if saban were there, but not sure if that would mean championships
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Posted on 7/15/14 at 7:23 pm to Scoob
I agreed but from the other perspective. You can't win in some places, at least not consistently.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:14 pm to nc14
quote:
You can't win in some places, at least not consistently.
I think so too. Could he win an SEC title at Kentucky? Maybe, but its gonna be hard as hell, even for him.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:18 pm to scrooster
Probably all of those except Kentucky. Kentucky is fricked.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:38 pm to redgreen
quote:
Probably all of those except Kentucky. Kentucky is fricked.
But I thought The Bear and Jerry Claiborne .... nevermind, I may be remembering that incorrectly. My mind plays tricks on me these days.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:56 pm to scrooster
This is actually a very good question . . . for the Rant.
I think he can recruit anywhere, maybe not up to what he gets at Alabama though. Winning? I personally don't think anyone can win 10+ games consistently (like 5-6 years in a row) at Miss. St., Vandy, KY, and OM. He could do 8-9 consistently though.
He could do what he is doing now only at a few programs - Bama & LSU of course. Florida, A&M and UGA too. A slightly lower chance at SCAR and Auburn. Arky, TN, Mizzou would be the next tier before the bottom four.
Outside the SEC: Notre Dame. With their schedule . . . wow . . . being able to recruit from everywhere too - he would never lose.
I think he can recruit anywhere, maybe not up to what he gets at Alabama though. Winning? I personally don't think anyone can win 10+ games consistently (like 5-6 years in a row) at Miss. St., Vandy, KY, and OM. He could do 8-9 consistently though.
He could do what he is doing now only at a few programs - Bama & LSU of course. Florida, A&M and UGA too. A slightly lower chance at SCAR and Auburn. Arky, TN, Mizzou would be the next tier before the bottom four.
Outside the SEC: Notre Dame. With their schedule . . . wow . . . being able to recruit from everywhere too - he would never lose.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:26 pm to scrooster
SEC. Claiborne did not win SEC championships.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:30 pm to redgreen
quote:
Probably all of those except Kentucky. Kentucky is fricked.
Bear won the SEC title at Kentucky.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:32 pm to cardboardboxer
And then upgraded. Bball and Rupp ruled the day and Bear was not second fiddle.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:20 am to Scoob
quote:
No. He's the type that maximizes potential, but doesn't build that potential from the ground up...
I doubt he'd have had the success Spurrier has had, for example, in transforming Florida and South Carolina from meh to what they are now.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:33 am to scrooster
I know I will sound like a horses behind but not intentionally. I think he could at OM but some of those schools such as Kentucky and Vanderbilt just have too many things working against them for any coach to win a national title at. I do think he would make them competitive in the sec though and probably win a couple of sec championships.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:36 am to GoldenReb
He didn't do it at Mich St but I think they were on probation and by the time he left they were on their way.
I don't know if he could have done it anywhere. Even Spurrier still hasn't won a SEC title at USC.
I don't know if he could have done it anywhere. Even Spurrier still hasn't won a SEC title at USC.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:41 am to nicholastiger
He would compete anywhere now. He wouldn't win a bunch of titles at MSU, mind you, but he'd improve them significantly.
But you have to account for Saban now vs. Saban when he went to LSU. At that time, he was a good coach and a great recruiter. The media "King returns" thing when he came to Alabama did as much for Saban's recruiting as any personal attribute.
That's not a slight, in a business where perception is half the game, getting the perception to go your way is part of the deal.
If he went to another school now, ESPN would immediately go wall to wall with "instant contender" stuff. That feeds on itself, no matter what Saban does. Auburn is getting a little of that with the Pearl thing, on a smaller scale.
But you have to account for Saban now vs. Saban when he went to LSU. At that time, he was a good coach and a great recruiter. The media "King returns" thing when he came to Alabama did as much for Saban's recruiting as any personal attribute.
That's not a slight, in a business where perception is half the game, getting the perception to go your way is part of the deal.
If he went to another school now, ESPN would immediately go wall to wall with "instant contender" stuff. That feeds on itself, no matter what Saban does. Auburn is getting a little of that with the Pearl thing, on a smaller scale.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:45 am to scrooster
quote:
But what about at MSU, KY, Vandy and Ole Miss? Mizzou?
Yeah probably. Given a large timeframe I could see him being able to do it, if each one of these school gave him the time and resource. LSU was essentially a less successful Ole Miss when he took over.
quote:
Could he do it at Arkansas?
Not in a million years.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:51 am to scrooster
quote:
quote:Yes. It may take him slightly longer at Kentucky or Vandy than a traditional football school, but he would be able to do it. Programs and fans would be ecstatic about having him and recruits flock to him because of how good he's been. I think he'd win a national championship at every school within 5-10 years of whatever program he took over. So you see Saban as a distance runner kind of coach rather than a sprinter? Holtz was a Mr. Fixit type of coach. He'd spring for a couple of seasons then burn-out. Spurrier is a distance runner type of coach. He's all about building. He proved it at Duke, Florida and SCAR. Is Saban really the kind of guy that could come in and have the patience to build a program at Vandy, Kentucky or MSU?
If you plug Saban in at MIZZOU when Pinkel/2001 took the job I think MIZZOU at a minimum plays for a BCS title.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:59 am to scrooster
SCAR has reached their max with Spurrier. What makes you think Saban could do any better at a school with such a terrible football program?
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:04 am to Landmass
quote:
SCAR has reached their max with Spurrier. What makes you think Saban could do any better at a school with such a terrible football program?
Media attention. The perception of Spurrier is that he's a great football coach, a little past his prime, who has restored a bad program into a competitor. There is no hype or expectation of championships.
If ESPN suddenly started wall to wall coverage about how Spurrier is expected to win championships, started ranking SCAR #1 during rebuilding years, and started essentially telling recruits that Spurrier is the guy to play for if you want to win titles and play in the league, it would be a different story.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:07 am to nc14
quote:
Honestly, at the non-power programs he might win a conference championship or two. Some places are just too tough to win at that level (championship).
Agreed. Vandy has too stringent academic requirements, and UK doesn't have the facilities or in-state talent.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:54 am to scrooster
I guess the way I look at it is if Freeze could get a top 5 class at Ole Miss, Stoops could get a top 20 class at Kentucky, and Franklin could get a top 25 one at Vandy, why would Saban not be able to consistently bring in top classes at these schools? It's not like there are no players that want to go play there. If you are a great recruiter, success will follow... unless you're Mack Brown from 2009-2013.
As for Arkansas, Petrino took them to be a top 5 team in the nation. I think Saban is a little bit better coach and recruiter than Bobby.
As for Arkansas, Petrino took them to be a top 5 team in the nation. I think Saban is a little bit better coach and recruiter than Bobby.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 2:02 pm to Scoob
To TexasAg13 and CSbandit82, in reference to my prior post
LSU was a 8-10 regular season win type of program, but with wild swings downwards at times; Saban got us up to around 8-10 wins and was keeping us there.
Alabama is a 10-12 win type of program, and he's got them there every year.
Ole Miss is a 5-8 win type of program, and Saban would get them hovering around 8 wins pretty consistently. I don't think he would advance them beyond that level, but he would prevent the occasional slide down to lower records.
Florida was a 6-8 win program when Spurrier arrived, and he pushed them into the 9-11 win level. South Carolina was a 5-7 win program, he pushed them to 8-10 win level. (all regular season win total).
Saban will get you to hover around the high end of your current potential. He won't shove you beyond that; you might have an occasional better season but you will settle back into your base level. He would not have elevated Vandy or South Carolina like , but he would maximize an inconsistent program like Arkansas, Auburn or Texas A&M to where they are no longer inconsistent. You look at their overall history and won-loss record, and they have shown they can contend; he would have them contending every season. He doesn't advance the program, he stabilizes that program at around their peak expected level.
Spurrier has shown the ability to advance programs beyond their level, to make contenders out of also-rans (Florida, South Carolina, go back and look at his time at Duke also).
Saban fixes programs; he would fix Tennessee to where they would contend again annually. He wouldn't make a contender at Kentucky.
Spurrier builds programs; give him 6 yrs at Kentucky and he will have them in contention.
Make more sense?
quote:which confused people:
No. He's the type that maximizes potential, but doesn't build that potential from the ground up...
I doubt he'd have had the success Spurrier has had, for example, in transforming Florida and South Carolina from meh to what they are now.
LSU was a 8-10 regular season win type of program, but with wild swings downwards at times; Saban got us up to around 8-10 wins and was keeping us there.
Alabama is a 10-12 win type of program, and he's got them there every year.
Ole Miss is a 5-8 win type of program, and Saban would get them hovering around 8 wins pretty consistently. I don't think he would advance them beyond that level, but he would prevent the occasional slide down to lower records.
Florida was a 6-8 win program when Spurrier arrived, and he pushed them into the 9-11 win level. South Carolina was a 5-7 win program, he pushed them to 8-10 win level. (all regular season win total).
Saban will get you to hover around the high end of your current potential. He won't shove you beyond that; you might have an occasional better season but you will settle back into your base level. He would not have elevated Vandy or South Carolina like , but he would maximize an inconsistent program like Arkansas, Auburn or Texas A&M to where they are no longer inconsistent. You look at their overall history and won-loss record, and they have shown they can contend; he would have them contending every season. He doesn't advance the program, he stabilizes that program at around their peak expected level.
Spurrier has shown the ability to advance programs beyond their level, to make contenders out of also-rans (Florida, South Carolina, go back and look at his time at Duke also).
Saban fixes programs; he would fix Tennessee to where they would contend again annually. He wouldn't make a contender at Kentucky.
Spurrier builds programs; give him 6 yrs at Kentucky and he will have them in contention.
Make more sense?
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