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re: Bookmark : Stanford, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, and Minnesota fear SEC venues?
Posted on 10/15/14 at 9:02 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 10/15/14 at 9:02 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
I think the fact that it all went down 55 years ago might have something to do with that as well
In the age of 24 / 7 / 365 all access, I have no doubt it would have been different that long ago. We can at least agree on this point.
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Posted on 10/15/14 at 9:10 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:when the new conference is essentially the old conference just with a different name? I have no issue. And what I was getting at was that you were saying that wins in the PCC should not count at all because of the cheating going on. Well the same shite was going on at the SWC with every single school except what was going on there was what the PCC was doing on steroids. SMU wasn't the only school cheating, they were just idiotic about it
If you disband a conference, should those trophies accrue to brand new conference?
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 10/15/14 at 9:44 pm to WestCoastAg
Michigan will be off the list in a couple years... They play at Arkansas in 2019
Posted on 10/15/14 at 9:49 pm to Cheese Grits
Texas at Ole Miss 2012.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:06 pm to Cheese Grits
Arizona played at LSU around '04
Posted on 10/16/14 at 4:52 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
And what I was getting at was that you were saying that wins in the PCC should not count at all because of the cheating going on.
Okay, in the modern world They would have to vacate at least a year or so of wins but lets say I go with your point and they do not have to vacate any of them, it still does not solve the issue of breaks between the old and the new.
When the Western evolved eventually into the B1G there was no break in time which is why they claim being the oldest conference out there. Same conference, different name, but no break. The Southern Intercollegiate is actually the oldest but the Southern evolved from it and the SEC evolved from the Southern. The SEC does not claim ownership as the oldest because they chose not to, tho it could easily be argued they should. The Southern Intercollegiate was still in progress when the Southern started, and the same thing happened when the SEC broke off from the Southern. Using the PAC logic to link the PCC, the SEC could easily show the continual chain of the 13 charter members through all 3 conferences.
So,
Western to B1G = unbroken chain
Southern Intercollegiate to Southern to Southeastern = unbroken chain
PCC to AAWU = broken chain and AAWU to PAC = unbroken chain
While the SEC acknowledges MNC of member schools, it also shows the early years with an * and notes they are school school only MNC's and not conference MNC's so :
Football :
1919 – Texas A&M*
xxxxxxxx SoCon formed after 1920 football season and before 1921 football season XXXXXXXX
1925 – Alabama*
1926 – Alabama*
1927 – Texas A&M*
1930 – Alabama*
xxxxxxxx SEC formed after 1932 football season and before 1933 football season XXXXXXXX
1934 – Alabama
1938 – Tennessee
1939 – Texas A&M*
1940 – 1962 edited out for brevity of post
1964 – Alabama/Arkansas*
1965 – 2012 edited out for brevity of post
Note that each team in bold credits the former conference and NOT the SEC
Now got back to the PCC and PAC. One ended before the other one started. Unlike the B1G and SEC who started while the other was already in place or still going on, the PAC can not claim such an unbroken chain. This is my point, which you keep dodging around, is that there is a point between the two where neither exists. hence to separate and distinct conferences (not 1 continual one or one starting while the other one exists).
PCC | period when no conference exists | AAWU formed, and morphs into PAC
2 separate conferences with records accorded to each and not to a single conference.
If the SEC used the logic of the PAC, they could not only claim to be the oldest conference in america but also claim national championships of the 13 charter schools all the way back through the Southern and Southern Intercollegiate, which they do not do.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Posted on 10/16/14 at 6:23 am to Cheese Grits
quote:Interesting thread, but surprised that no one has mentioned the biggest determining factor, and it is not fear.
Arkansas plays at Michigan in 2018 and Michgan comes to Fayetteville in 2019.
It is money. It is much more profitable to play teams that you do not have to have a home and home series in the non-conference schedule. The SEC does that, and most all conferences do that.
As a fan, I much prefer non-conference games between the Big 5 conferences, but wanting to maximize the number of home games (money), that is difficult. And unfortunately, almost impossible, if you have a rival that you play every year on a home and home basis. Iowa plays Iowa St every year, and many Hawkeye fans would love to see that not happen, so they could upgrade the non-conference part of the schedule.
I think also bowl tie-ins with a particular conference can also discourage regular season games between those conferences, so as not to increase the probability of rematches.
Posted on 10/16/14 at 6:42 am to SadSouthernBuck
quote:
here are the SIX SEC teams that have not played in a B1G venue:
1. Auburn
2. Tennessee
3. Ole Miss
4. Arkansas
5. South Carolina
6. Texas A&M
Tennessee has never played a Big 10 team in the regular season (unless you count the Kickoff-Classic vs Iowa in '87). They are scheduled to play at Nebraska in 2026. Nothing could possibly change by then.
Posted on 10/16/14 at 8:46 am to RazorHawk
quote:
RazorHawk
Thanks for the Iowa vs Iowa State games to the discussion and I edited the OP to include that information. Still much space between the mid 30's and the mid 70's when the series was not played. Any insight why this game was discontinued for so long?
As to the thread itself, it started with the fact Stanford had never played an SEC school at an SEC stadium. Part was in response to the new Vanderbilt coach (who came from Stanford) who is pushing for a series with his former employer. This lead to former games with Vanderbilt (similar academic school) and it turned out there were none. Which lead to the SEC as a whole with a similar result.
It was even odder as Stanford had played former SEC school Tulane in home and home series about 8 or 12 times. Also they had played Duke 4 times home and home and given Wake Forest a series as well. Since Stanford had shown a willingness to travel in the south for these other games it was curious why they had not also done so for Vanderbilt. From that basic question it went to this thread which attempted to find and define other schools with similar no shows in SEC venues.
As to the money, I tend to agree. Looking at the schools who had not played the SEC, Michigan seemed to be the worst offender as they were very bad at not honoring return trips to the SEC after the SEC schools had gone to the Big House on multiple occasions. Even Missouri (pre SEC) had made 4 such trips without a singe return to Columbia. Maybe this was just a common practice of Michigan during their long history.
The oddest one was Minnesota as their great pre war success was derived from the Coach who got the first back to back to back MNC in the country. Bernie Bierman coached for both Mississippi State and Tulane during the better years of the Green Wave. If any of the 5 schools listed in the OP should have played SEC schools in their stadiums he seems most probable to already know the venues and the environments.
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