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Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:01 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
It's pretty brutal in Missouri because there isn't an airport and the trains are always delayed.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:02 pm to the808bass
quote:
Is Lee still in the League?
Yeah he is actually. My bad, I wasn't familiar with him. OP edited
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:04 pm to the808bass
Major programs ranked by win pct.
1. Kentucky .762
2. North Carolina .737
3. Kansas .721
4. Duke .704
5. Syracuse .693
6. UCLA .692
7. Louisville .661
8. St. John's .653
9. Illinois .651
10. Notre Dame .648
11. Temple .646
12. Arizona .646
13. Utah .643
14. UConn .642
15. Arkansas .640
16. Indiana .640
That's the top 16 winningest programs in basketball.
Only 5 of their coaches make more than 2.7million per year
But, Id hate for facts to get in your way Grits.
1. Kentucky .762
2. North Carolina .737
3. Kansas .721
4. Duke .704
5. Syracuse .693
6. UCLA .692
7. Louisville .661
8. St. John's .653
9. Illinois .651
10. Notre Dame .648
11. Temple .646
12. Arizona .646
13. Utah .643
14. UConn .642
15. Arkansas .640
16. Indiana .640
That's the top 16 winningest programs in basketball.
Only 5 of their coaches make more than 2.7million per year
But, Id hate for facts to get in your way Grits.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:06 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:08 pm to KCM0Tiger
quote:
UT definitely has great recruiting grounds, especially Memphis. Missouri has Kansas City and St. Louis. The problem is they Mizzou has trouble recruiting St. Louis for some reason. If a coach felt he could break into St. Louis, Mizzou is a good place to recruit.
I hear ya. Everybody thinks Memphis and Atlanta when thinking UT and we do draw a lot from there but I tell you Knoxville is soooo close to Cincy (only 30 mins farther than ATL and probably less when Atlanta's traffic is factored in), Indianapolis, the DC area and much more that a real recruiter could have a field day and never want for our share of top shelf talent in basketball. There are a lot of talent pools nearby, it's just that Memphis and Atlanta 'feel' closer because they're in the South but when you pull out the map or start googling distances we're just as close to other places.
How hard do you think it would be for Mizzou to cultivate St. Louis? I figured you had it already but I guess not.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:10 pm to Prof
quote:
How hard do you think it would be for Mizzou to cultivate St. Louis? I figured you had it already but I guess not.
St. Louis is a pay to play town. There's "community" "servants" who need a cut to steer a recruit. We've never done that.
In St. Louis.
Other places, sure.
Eta: I think some people thought hiring a black coach or two would win over St. Louis. Lolololol
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:11 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
That's the top 16 winningest programs in basketball.
Only 5 of their coaches make more than 2.7million per year
But, Id hate for facts to get in your way Grits.
Far be it for me to get in the way of someone shitting on Grits. I encourage that type of discussion.
However, I really think that the all time records don't matter a whole ton when it comes to hiring new coaches. It's more about aspirations/desires for the program and the influx of new revenue.
Coaching pay will go up, and I doubt it starts at the top. It will get there, but as with most things in sports, it will come from someone overpaying a less accomplished person and the more qualified using it as a bargaining tool.
I hope we can participate in the future inflation of basketball coaching salaries.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:14 pm to Prof
quote:
Everybody thinks Memphis and Atlanta when thinking UT and we do draw a lot from there but I tell you Knoxville is soooo close to Cincy (only 30 mins farther than ATL and probably less when Atlanta's traffic is factored in)
Takes me about 4 hours to get to Cincy and 2 hrs 40 mins to ATL.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:15 pm to Mizzeaux
I just don't think you will see what happens in football, happen in basketball.
Arenas are just too small around the country. You don't have the 8-12 bowl payouts to schools for conference money each year. There aren't as many timeouts in a game for advertising dollars like football at the arenas. Games are only 1:45-2:00 long, which means you don't make that much money on concessions or goods sold like you do an entire day of tailgating plus game for football.
Arenas are just too small around the country. You don't have the 8-12 bowl payouts to schools for conference money each year. There aren't as many timeouts in a game for advertising dollars like football at the arenas. Games are only 1:45-2:00 long, which means you don't make that much money on concessions or goods sold like you do an entire day of tailgating plus game for football.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:19 pm to Hawgeye
The difference is the amount of games, 7-8 verses 18-20.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:21 pm to DaleDenton
And the amount of people and prices of tickets.
I just don't think we will ever see retarded coaching salaries in basketball.
I just don't think we will ever see retarded coaching salaries in basketball.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:26 pm to the808bass
quote:
St. Louis is a pay to play town. There's "community" "servants" who need a cut to steer a recruit. We've never done that.
Sounds a lot like Memphis football 'mentors' that take in (literally and more figuratively) poor prospects who have no parents looking out for them and claim to 'coach' and 'mentor' them individually. A lot of the kids never see a dime or even realize they're being used until later but certain schools line the pockets of these mentors in order to ensure the mentor will steer the prospect to them. Thankfully things are changing slowly but surely - kids and grandparents/aunts/uncles are getting wise to these con-men but they're still out there.
Basketball though is probably the dirtiest college sport out there. It's worse than football when it comes to pay for play and dirty recruitment. Unlike football though, the NCAA is invested in these programs as they get virtually are their money via hosting the tourney and have no interest busting chops/policing the same way they oversee football programs (and they're lukewarm when it comes to policing football!).
A successful college basketball coach pretty much has to be dirty just to compete and the best ones are filthy. All a matter of degree.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:28 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
I just don't think you will see what happens in football, happen in basketball.
Arenas are just too small around the country. You don't have the 8-12 bowl payouts to schools for conference money each year. There aren't as many timeouts in a game for advertising dollars like football at the arenas. Games are only 1:45-2:00 long, which means you don't make that much money on concessions or goods sold like you do an entire day of tailgating plus game for football.
The amount paid on basketball has already got to be high in relation to revenues.
If I was running an athletic department as a business, I'd maximize my profits in my moneymaker (football) and then move the available money to the next closest profit maker. It may never match the ratios of football, but the ancillary sales (shirts, hats, apparel of all sorts) would skyrocket.
When you really think about it, basketball is just the vehicle with which you promote your brand for an additional four months after football is done. Hell, I'd run it at a deficit if I wasn't required to make a profit and it gave me a shot to have my brand out there an additional four months.
I think that's the real money. Ticket sales and concessions are small peanuts.
Then again, there's a reason I'm not being contacted for AD jobs, I'm just a small businessman.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:30 pm to volfan30
quote:
Takes me about 4 hours to get to Cincy and 2 hrs 40 mins to ATL.
Route familiarity? Cincy is an easy drive. Google says 3 and 1/2 for Cincy and 3 for Atlanta and typically google estimates are based upon following the law.
I've never had trouble getting to either. They're the same to me.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:36 pm to Mizzeaux
Depends on the school, Duke, for example, pays Coach K more than Bama pays Saban or Sumlin is stealing from aTm.
Duke would be nothing without Coach K leading their basketball program for the last 40 years or whatever.
Duke would be nothing without Coach K leading their basketball program for the last 40 years or whatever.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:38 pm to Prof
quote:
here are a lot of talent pools nearby, it's just that Memphis and Atlanta 'feel' closer because they're in the South
Yeah a lot of people don't realize Knoxville is 6 hours from Memphis. I've had to explain to some people that Tuscaloosa is actually closer that Knoxville
Plus it is hard to recruit Memphis when these kids are raised on Tiger basketball. Outside of Jarnell, who had an odd situation, I can't think of many Memphis products at Tennessee. I thought Austin Nichols was a lock for Tennessee though.Every time I talked to the kid he said he loved it there.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:40 pm to Mizzeaux
I'm sure it is at Kentucky, Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee in our league.
Those arenas have suites and seat at least 15,000 fans.
The average basketball arena for major conferences I bet, is only around 10,500 seats.
So you're talking around 7-8 home games to be able to match normal SEC home football game attendance. Then, your tickets are about 30-50 dollars cheaper.
Right now, all your big time conference donors are pumping money into football, not basketball at these schools.
Take Arkansas for example....as nice as our arena is, we are the very last SEC basketball program that doesn't have a practice facility. Why? Money was put in the football operations center.....and we even started building a baseball indoor facility before even breaking ground on the basketball facility two months ago.
Why is that? Donors.....we have more money than God at our disposal here, but the big donors want it to go with football.
Those arenas have suites and seat at least 15,000 fans.
The average basketball arena for major conferences I bet, is only around 10,500 seats.
So you're talking around 7-8 home games to be able to match normal SEC home football game attendance. Then, your tickets are about 30-50 dollars cheaper.
Right now, all your big time conference donors are pumping money into football, not basketball at these schools.
Take Arkansas for example....as nice as our arena is, we are the very last SEC basketball program that doesn't have a practice facility. Why? Money was put in the football operations center.....and we even started building a baseball indoor facility before even breaking ground on the basketball facility two months ago.
Why is that? Donors.....we have more money than God at our disposal here, but the big donors want it to go with football.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:42 pm to RTR America
I'll be glad when those chicken shits stop being chicken shits and will schedule us again.
Memphis State vs. Arkansas used to be a marquee ESPN matchup. They're a bunch of panzies now.
Memphis State vs. Arkansas used to be a marquee ESPN matchup. They're a bunch of panzies now.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:43 pm to DaleDenton
Duke is unique, if Coach K was shite you would think of Duke like you think of Northwestern. Duke is Duke because of Coach K. He's got that in his belt. Duke's only marketing ability is through basketball, so he's worth it.
So someone like Mizzou, who doesn't spend a lot on much, the loss of basketball visibility hurts. The potential of real basketball visibility to the Mizzou brand is huge. Getting the right guy in that can get Mizzou basketball on SportsCenter every night during basketball season and on a lot of night during offseason would be huge.
Hell, it's marketing. Get the guy in, chalk the salary up to a marketing expense and you're in like Flynn.
I'm not saying it would happen, I'm just saying that if I had the opportunity to run a product at my company in a small deficit to potentially reap huge rewards for the future, I'd do it.
I don't need basketball to run a profit if I'm the Mizzou AD, I just need them to keep Mizzou in the news for a few months and build the brand. A Good basketball team is the most expensive and probably best return on investment you can get in college sports outside of football.
Like I said, I'm not an AD. I just think that's the way I'd look at it as an AD. Basketball is marketing for the brand.
So someone like Mizzou, who doesn't spend a lot on much, the loss of basketball visibility hurts. The potential of real basketball visibility to the Mizzou brand is huge. Getting the right guy in that can get Mizzou basketball on SportsCenter every night during basketball season and on a lot of night during offseason would be huge.
Hell, it's marketing. Get the guy in, chalk the salary up to a marketing expense and you're in like Flynn.
I'm not saying it would happen, I'm just saying that if I had the opportunity to run a product at my company in a small deficit to potentially reap huge rewards for the future, I'd do it.
I don't need basketball to run a profit if I'm the Mizzou AD, I just need them to keep Mizzou in the news for a few months and build the brand. A Good basketball team is the most expensive and probably best return on investment you can get in college sports outside of football.
Like I said, I'm not an AD. I just think that's the way I'd look at it as an AD. Basketball is marketing for the brand.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 9:50 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
I'm sure it is at Kentucky, Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee in our league.
I get what you're saying. Tickets and concessions are important, and they are. I wasn't trying to dismiss their importance. I'm just saying they pale in comparison to football. The vast majority of revenue comes from football, there is no debating that. TV contracts, sponsorships, etc.
Basketball has the fan support to make it a profit center, for sure. I'm just saying that it doesn't necessarily need to make money when you're in a football conference. Run the thing at a deficit, pay the coach plenty to get the guys in that people will watch and home game revenue will go up and subsidize the program and take the burden off football revenue.
All I'm saying is that from a guy with a marketing background, keeping Mizzou (or whatever school) relevant for the entire season and basically doubling the number of days your school is in the news is more important for sales and brand recognition.
That's it.
I don't care if basketball makes money, because even if it does, it pales in comparison to football. The additional revenues from licensing and the like will bring additional money in to support non revenue sports.
ETA: I'm drunk and I'm the only one here.
Hopefully someday a school will see this in the future and offer me a job as an associate AD because I'm so fricking groundbreaking.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 9:52 pm
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