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re: Alabama fans - Question about the 1973 Sugar Bowl
Posted on 2/21/16 at 4:33 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 2/21/16 at 4:33 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Why should Alabama not claim the 1973 national championship when one of the two major polls voted them national champions in 1973?
I have never understood the argument to the contrary.
Because two teams were picked as champion.
Two weeks later those teams met on the field (you know, where who is the best team is decided).
One team won.
Like a playoff or college Super Bowl.
3
Posted on 2/21/16 at 5:06 pm to Hometown Hero
quote:
Because two teams were picked as champion.
And that's all that matters.
Notre Dame won the AP while Alabama won the UPI.
Had one of the polls waited until after the bowl games in 1950 to award their national championship trophy, Kentucky would have claimed a share of the national title after beating Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl.
In 1951, had one of the polls waited until after the bowl games to award their national championship trophy, Maryland would have won a share of the national title after defeating Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl.
Oh...and let's not even start on Tennessee's claim to the 1967 national championship.
Bottom line, there are many more examples I can throw out at you where a previously crowned national champion lost their bowl game to a team that would have won the trophy had the polls waited until after the bowls. But we only pick on Alabama because they're on top at the moment.
Posted on 2/21/16 at 5:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
RollTide1987
quote:
Oh...and let's not even start on Tennessee's claim to the 1967 national championship
1925 - retroactively claimed championship
1926 - retroactively claimed championship
1930 - retroactively claimed championship
1934 - retroactively claimed championship
1941 - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
1973 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
1978 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
You were saying about Tennessee?
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:08 pm to LC412000
quote:I see that most of your questions were answered, but I'll tell you this because I was there and remember it well. The day of the game, the temp. nearly reached 70 and it was pleasant outside, but just before kickoff, a front came through and dumped over an inch of rain in about 30 minute. Also, temp went from about 70 down into the high 30s or low 40s. That night, New Orleans was the coldest place on earth! I've never been colder and wetter at the same time in my life. The 3rd down pass play that Ara called down inside his 5 yard line was as gutsy a call as you'd ever see back then...and it worked. If ND had been forced to try to punt from back there, everyone in the stadium knew that the game would be Alabama's, but.....
I probably should have placed in the thread title the question was for the older guys like Crisp and a few others.
I went to this game in New Orleans, but remember just bits and pieces of the game. Yesterday I viewed some video clips from the game and had a couple of questions for you guys:
1. I don't remember it raining for the game, but in some clips you can see water on the field when tackles are made. Did it rain during the game as I don't remember this.
2. The Alabama punter got off an awesome punt down to the Notre Dame 4-5 yard line at the end of the game. On the play, the Alabama punter was roughed with a personal foul called against Notre Dame. Coach Bryant declined the penalty.
Did he decline because the punt had the Irish back inside their 5 yard line? I think if he had taken the penalty, Alabama would have had the ball 1st and 10 around the 50.
3. Did Alabama play a two QB system that season with Rutledge and Todd? The kid that threw the TD pass to Todd was also a QB - Mike Stock. I don't remember much about him, did he ever play a significant amount of time as a QB for Alabama?
4. Wilbur Jackson - did he start his career as a wide receiver? I am questioning because he wore #80
This post was edited on 2/21/16 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:21 pm to Hometown Hero
quote:
1925 - retroactively claimed championship
quote:
1926 - retroactively claimed championship
United Press International, in the lead up to the 1927 Rose Bowl, called the game, "the football championship of America." It was also the first sporting event in American sports history to be broadcast on national radio. Alabama and Stanford played to a 7-7 tie. Naturally both can claim this as a national championship season.
quote:
1930 - retroactively claimed championship
1934 - retroactively claimed championship
Undefeated Rose Bowl seasons. I'll take them both.
quote:
1941 - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Agreed.
quote:
1973 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
See my other post above.
quote:
1978 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
Who lost to an unranked team in the middle of the season by double digits. Alabama played the second toughest schedule in college football that season behind only Notre Dame. Our OOC opponents were Nebraska, Missouri, USC, Washington, and Virginia Tech. Nebraska, Missouri, and USC were all ranked in the Top 10 when Alabama played them. LSU was likewise ranked in the Top 10 when we played them and, to cap it all off, we played and beat #1 Penn State in the Sugar Bowl.
At the time of the Sugar Bowl, Alabama was ranked #2 in both major polls. USC just barely edged Alabama in the UPI vote but won the AP vote very handily.
Alabama was just as worthy of a national champion in 1978 as USC was.
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:32 pm to Hometown Hero
You know we could go around in circles all day and try to explain to your simple mind how championships were awarded back then. However, your not going to accept it. Your real problem seems to be from an old system and how you perceive what should be. Everyone of those championships had awards attached to them and if you want to go back you could find fault with championships awarded with any team in general.
However, your Bama obsession is just sweet. It is really sad that Tennessee is just about as irrelevant as Vanderbilt is these days. Best of luck for the future.
However, your Bama obsession is just sweet. It is really sad that Tennessee is just about as irrelevant as Vanderbilt is these days. Best of luck for the future.
This post was edited on 2/21/16 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:40 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
1925 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with Dartmouth. Who awarded the NC? Houlgate and Helms. Houlgate started his system in 1927. So Bama won their 1925 NC using a formula that didn’t exist until 1927? Helms Athletic Foundation started in 1941. Another incredible retroactive NC.
The Associated Press Poll has been active since 1936. The AP took their final poll prior to bowl games from 1936 – 1964 and in 1966 and 1967. They took their final poll after the bowl games in 1965 and from 1968 – Current.
1926 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with 3 other teams with equal or better records! Once again it is the Helms Athletic Foundation in 1941 that awards it!
1930 National Championship- The Davis poll says that Bama tied Notre Dame for NC this year. This was the only one to award it to Bama. Notre Dame was named NC in 6 polls! Parke Davis is another retroactive system! He (an individual, not an organization) did his in 1933!
1934 National Championship- Alabama says they share this with two other teams. The awarders are Dunkel, Williamson, and Football Thesaurus. Dunkel was an individual who came up with his own system. Williamson was a geologist who came up with his own system. Football Thesaurus first appeared in 1946!
1941 National Championship- This is a complete joke. The AP ranked Alabama 20th in the nation with 14 teams with better records in the top 20. Once again it is the Football Thesaurus that retroactively awards it. Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC that year. Mississippi State won the SEC title..yet Bama claims a National title!
1973 National Championship- AP puts Bama 4th after their bowl game loss. Bama claims a NC from the UPI poll that was taken before they met Notre Dame in the bowl game and lost. There were 3 teams with better records than Bama that year. The embarrassment of naming Alabama number one caused the UPI to name champions after bowl games. Yet Bammer has no shame in claiming it of course.
1978 National Championship- AP gives this to Alabama(11-1-0) even though USC (12-1-0) had the better record Guess who Alabama lost to that year? USC!!!!!!!!!. UPI gave the NC to USC.
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:41 pm to oneusairman
I love how when you question Bammer's bullshite championship claims it always triggers a mass attack of Little Dick Syndrome.
Okay...y'all claimed 6 in 1983. Your media guide.
You have won 5 since.
Explain how in the Hell 6+5=16? How did you pull another 5 championships out of your arse?
Okay...y'all claimed 6 in 1983. Your media guide.
You have won 5 since.
Explain how in the Hell 6+5=16? How did you pull another 5 championships out of your arse?
Posted on 2/21/16 at 6:56 pm to Hometown Hero
Let me give you the basic skinny. I know you won't read it because you're a troll and have no interest in the truth, but for those fans who do want to know why Alabama's national title claims went from 6 to 11 in 1984, here is the skinny:
Recruiting.
Alabama was a national brand competing for top flight recruits with other national brands. Those brands being teams like Michigan, USC, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. Sometime in the early-80s, teams began to count national championships awarded to them retroactively from seasons in the pre-poll era. I believe Notre Dame pioneered this. It was all in the name of making their program look juicier to potential recruits.
Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame, and USC were among many schools that counted championship seasons in the pre-poll era as legitimate national championships.
Michigan was one of the biggest abusers of this recruiting technique. Realizing they only had one national championship season to brag about from the poll era, the Wolverine SID went back to the early years of the 20th century to wrangle in some national championships. They claimed 1901, 1902, 1903, as well as 1904. And then topped it off with 1923, 1932, 1933, and 1947.
Did anyone in the SID office care that 7 of their 9 newly minted national championships came from the pre-WWII era? No. All they cared about was the sign that hung on the banner below the school name: 10-time NCAA National Champions. That, combined with their record number of wins and Big Ten titles, made the school look good to attend for some big time athletes.
And this goes for Alabama as well. Though why we chose 1941 as a national championship season instead of 1945 I have no idea.
Recruiting.
Alabama was a national brand competing for top flight recruits with other national brands. Those brands being teams like Michigan, USC, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. Sometime in the early-80s, teams began to count national championships awarded to them retroactively from seasons in the pre-poll era. I believe Notre Dame pioneered this. It was all in the name of making their program look juicier to potential recruits.
Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame, and USC were among many schools that counted championship seasons in the pre-poll era as legitimate national championships.
Michigan was one of the biggest abusers of this recruiting technique. Realizing they only had one national championship season to brag about from the poll era, the Wolverine SID went back to the early years of the 20th century to wrangle in some national championships. They claimed 1901, 1902, 1903, as well as 1904. And then topped it off with 1923, 1932, 1933, and 1947.
Did anyone in the SID office care that 7 of their 9 newly minted national championships came from the pre-WWII era? No. All they cared about was the sign that hung on the banner below the school name: 10-time NCAA National Champions. That, combined with their record number of wins and Big Ten titles, made the school look good to attend for some big time athletes.
And this goes for Alabama as well. Though why we chose 1941 as a national championship season instead of 1945 I have no idea.
This post was edited on 2/21/16 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 2/21/16 at 7:05 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Michigan was one of the biggest abusers of this recruiting technique. Realizing they only had one national championship season to brag about from the poll era, the Wolverine SID went back to the early years of the 20th century to wrangle in some national championships. They claimed 1901, 1902, 1903, as well as 1904. And then topped it off with 1923, 1932, 1933, and 1947.
Did anyone in the SID office care that 7 of their 9 newly minted national championships came from the pre-WWII era? No. All they cared about was the sign that hung on the banner below the school name: 10-time NCAA National Champions. That, combined with their record number of wins and Big Ten titles, made the school look good to attend for some big time athletes.
"Michigan did it first."
That does not excuse the fact you went back claiming retroactive championships that were not awarded in the year in question.
You have basically made up a bunch of championships. A damned geologist awards you a championship 15 years after the fact and you claim it.
It would be funny if it were not so pathetic.
Posted on 2/21/16 at 7:06 pm to coachcrisp
Crisp...might have been better to have Notre Dame complete that 3rd down pass. I am unsure if the Bama kicker (Davis I think his name was) was not completely shot by this time in the game. If Notre Dame does not complete the 3rd down pass, I am thinking Alabama only wins if they could find a way to get across the goal line.
I asked my dad today about the weather at the game as I don't recall it being wet or cold. His answer was almost like yours....it was COLD. Said if the game had not been so tight, since he had no dog in the fight we would have been gone by half
I asked my dad today about the weather at the game as I don't recall it being wet or cold. His answer was almost like yours....it was COLD. Said if the game had not been so tight, since he had no dog in the fight we would have been gone by half
Posted on 2/21/16 at 7:12 pm to Hometown Hero
quote:
You have basically made up a bunch of championships.
You have absolutely no room to talk. The Volunteers only have 2 national championships awarded by major selectors and yet your athletic department claims 6. You retroactively awarded yourselves four national championships to make your program look a little better. How is that any different from Alabama retroactively awarding itself five national championships? Here's your answer: it's not.
At least we were smart enough to claim 4 of those 5 in the pre-poll era. All of your retroactively claimed titles come from the poll era.
This post was edited on 2/21/16 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 2/21/16 at 8:52 pm to RollTide1987
Stop feeding the troll. He'll be banned (again) soon enough.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 6:11 am to Hometown Hero
4 of the last 7 undisputed national championships, and 9 in a row over Tennessee.
Feel free to discuss the merits of the bowl era championship system.
Feel free to discuss the merits of the bowl era championship system.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 6:14 am to Crimson Legend
He's just mad that Tennessee will never have the titles we do.
They're bankrupt and irrelevant.
They're bankrupt and irrelevant.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 7:59 am to LC412000
quote:I think that was the last Sugar Bowl game ever played in old Tulane Stadium (outside)...maybe the last college game, period.
Crisp...might have been better to have Notre Dame complete that 3rd down pass. I am unsure if the Bama kicker (Davis I think his name was) was not completely shot by this time in the game. If Notre Dame does not complete the 3rd down pass, I am thinking Alabama only wins if they could find a way to get across the goal line.
I asked my dad today about the weather at the game as I don't recall it being wet or cold. His answer was almost like yours....it was COLD. Said if the game had not been so tight, since he had no dog in the fight we would have been gone by half
Posted on 2/22/16 at 8:24 am to AlabamaAlum07
quote:
AlabamaAlum07
Right! Anyone that slaps your stupid arse in the mouth with facts is a troll.
Once again, go pull a few more championships out of your Little Dick Syndrome suffering asses.
1925 - retroactively claimed championship
1926 - retroactively claimed championship
1930 - retroactively claimed championship
1934 - retroactively claimed championship
1941 - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
1973 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
1978 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
FACTS:
1925 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with Dartmouth. Who awarded the NC? Houlgate and Helms. Houlgate started his system in 1927. So Bama won their 1925 NC using a formula that didn’t exist until 1927? Helms Athletic Foundation started in 1941. Another incredible retroactive NC. (no one claimed 1925, let's jump back 15 years and claim it
) 1926 National Championship- Alabama claims they share this one with 3 other teams with equal or better records! Once again it is the Helms Athletic Foundation in 1941 that awards it! (15 years AFTER the fact)
The Associated Press Poll has been active since 1936. The AP took their final poll prior to bowl games from 1936 – 1964 and in 1966 and 1967. They took their final poll after the bowl games in 1965 and from 1968 – Current.
1930 National Championship- The Davis poll says that Bama tied Notre Dame for NC this year. This was the only one to award it to Bama. Notre Dame was named NC in 6 polls! Parke Davis is another retroactive system! He (an individual, not an organization) did his in 1933! (one guy proclaimed you champions...hang a banner
) 1934 National Championship- Alabama says they share this with two other teams. The awarders are Dunkel, Williamson, and Football Thesaurus. Dunkel was an individual who came up with his own system. Williamson was a geologist who came up with his own system. Football Thesaurus first appeared in 1946! (even better...a geologist names you champions a dozen years later...print the rings
) 1941 National Championship- This is a complete joke. The AP ranked Alabama 20th in the nation with 14 teams with better records in the top 20. Once again it is the Football Thesaurus that retroactively awards it. Alabama finished 3rd in the SEC that year. Mississippi State won the SEC title..yet Bama claims a National title! (what a joke
) 1973 National Championship- AP puts Bama 4th after their bowl game loss. Bama claims a NC from the UPI poll that was taken before they met Notre Dame in the bowl game and lost. There were 3 teams with better records than Bama that year. The embarrassment of naming Alabama number one caused the UPI to name champions after bowl games. Yet Bammer has no shame in claiming it of course. (beaten on the field by the real champion)
1978 National Championship- AP gives this to Alabama(11-1-0) even though USC (12-1-0) had the better record Guess who Alabama lost to that year? USC!!!!!!!!!. UPI gave the NC to USC. (beaten on the field by the real champion)
YOUR media guide. 6+5=16
Posted on 2/22/16 at 8:42 am to Hometown Hero
quote:
Because two teams were picked as champion.
Two weeks later those teams met on the field (you know, where who is the best team is decided).
One team won.
Like a playoff or college Super Bowl.
I'll bet you're a youngun.
U know LOTS of teams, Arkie being one, Michigan, Nebraska, all claim national titles that they were awarded by the UPI and then they promptly lost their bowl games but still list those titles? That's how the UPI worked. I suppose you only old enough to remember the BCS where it was two teams, one game, nice, pretty and organized. Well, fact was we had two major polls, UPI and AP. Ask Arkie and 69 Texas if they claim their titles befoer bowl games.
Hell, Notre Dame claims 7 or 8 in years that they DIDN"T EVEN PLAY in a bowl game.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 8:48 am to Roses of Crimson
quote:
I'll bet you're a youngun.
I'll bet I'm not.
That is how I know a lot of your claims are BS. I remember when y'all suddenly went from claiming 7 and jumped to 12.
You claim those because of one man.
LINK
The reason your fellow fans have launched personal attacks is because I hit them in the mouth with facts. They have noting other than the ad hominem.
Posted on 2/22/16 at 8:49 am to Hometown Hero
1925 - retroactively claimed championship
1926 - retroactively claimed championship
1930 - retroactively claimed championship
1934 - retroactively claimed championship
1941 - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
1973 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
1978 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
I LOOOOVE how on that USC 1978 game which was awarded by the UPI, you call them a co-champion but don't want recognize Bama's UPI title in 1973. Typical Vol stupidity or ignorance.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Preach on brother!
Oh, and later on that season SC was BLOWN OUT by Arizona State which knocked them down the polls. See, when you lost, you moved down and teams that won moved up. It wasn't voted on by a panel which is probably the way you think it's always been. It was simple. It was always better to lose early than late. That's what happened.
1926 - retroactively claimed championship
1930 - retroactively claimed championship
1934 - retroactively claimed championship
1941 - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
1973 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
1978 - beaten on the field by the other co-champion
I LOOOOVE how on that USC 1978 game which was awarded by the UPI, you call them a co-champion but don't want recognize Bama's UPI title in 1973. Typical Vol stupidity or ignorance.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Preach on brother!
Oh, and later on that season SC was BLOWN OUT by Arizona State which knocked them down the polls. See, when you lost, you moved down and teams that won moved up. It wasn't voted on by a panel which is probably the way you think it's always been. It was simple. It was always better to lose early than late. That's what happened.
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