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re: 18 years of fraud at Chapel Hill...
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:42 pm to Herman Frisco
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:42 pm to Herman Frisco
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When SACS gets thru with their look see the NCAA will not have anyone to sanction.
After the initial reports came out, SACS was cool with UNC just offering the students who took the fake classes....real classes. Seriously, that was all they said they could do..... Meanwhile SACS has attacked HBC's and predominately minority colleges.
https://www.13newsnow.com/story/news/local/mycity/norfolk/2014/12/09/nsu-probation/20153465/
quote:
NORFOLK -- Norfolk State University has been placed on probation by its accrediting agency.
The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools announced the decision on Tuesday.
SACS' governing board placed the school on warning status last December for a number of issues, including the school's handling of money, board governance and faculty engagement.
The warning meant that the agency would continue to keep a close watch on the university, which had a year to resolve outstanding problems.
https://diverseeducation.com/article/3914/
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The decision to revoke the college’s accreditation was based largely on its failure to provide accurate information, SACS officials have said.
In May, Barber-Scotia revealed it had awarded degrees to nearly 30 students in the adult education program who hadn’t completed all of the requirements.
So HBC Barber Scotia gave out 30 degrees to students who attended fake classes. SACS TAKES AWAY THEIR ACCREDITATION.
UNC gave out 3,100 degrees to students who attended fake classes. SACS SAYS, 'WHAT CAN WE DO?!?! JUST OFFER THEM THE CLASSES."
but it's not racist.
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Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:46 pm to cardboardboxer
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VERY few schools have athelete admission standards higher than the NCAA minimum. That means most schools are taking under-qualified athletes (compared to their normal student population), which also means this particular "stereotype" is probably pretty accurate.
Just because the minimum standards for athletes is lower than for regular students doesn't mean all or even most athletes are towing that line. The vast majority have pretty normal high school gpa's and test scores. And those who do toe that line usually come from underfunded or rural/urban schools that can't adequately prepare them for college, athlete or not. Most academic service programs at most colleges seek to and do a good job of bringing those particular students up to speed.
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lso many schools have majors that are basically made for athletes, whether that is some sort of general degree on some sort of specialized "sports management" scam. So instead of deploying an army of tutors they funnel these kids into degree programs with little real-world value and which deliver a fraction of a normal college education. Where is the indignation over that?
No, most schools have majors that are made for any student admitted to the university to pick and choose to take in pursuance of their degree. As useless as a Sociology or Housing degree may sound, it does serve some use and many students - not just athletes - will graduate with a degree in that major and go on to grad school or work or whatever. THAT issue isn't an athletics one; it's a commercialization of college undergraduate degrees issue.
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The NCAA is already a very weak organization- if they couldn't bust Miami they can't hammer UNC.
The NCAA is weak because they choose to be weak in the interest of adhering to arcane rules and in making money. They couldn't bust Miami because one of their investigators got overzealous and hired an attorney to subpoena Shapiro and others. NCAA dismissed all findings prior to that point and started over which resulted in next to nothing.
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The amatuar nature of college football is already dead
Well, yeah. But that doesn't mean college athletics has to be. College football/basketball/baseball started out with Harvard and Princeton and Yale all paying old alumni and people that didn't ever attend the school to come play for their teams. The payments didn't stop until Football was reformed in the early 1900s and the NCAA was later established. Amateurism is an arcane and inherently unfair ideal that was meant to preserve a sort of university hierarchy that suited the time back then but, obviously, has been far outgrown. College athletics can exist without it, but the integrity of the educational experience has to be upheld same as the rules on the field or court.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:46 pm to Crowknowsbest
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... and that's where you're wrong. The three power players in the ACC are UNC, UVA, and Duke. That's where the money and influence is. Take away one, and the draw for the other two to hold it together is impacted significantly.
I would actually say it's UNC, NC STATE, Wake Forrest and Duke. The North Carolina schools run that conference. But the power UNC wields is that of decision making and internal political power. The Tobacco Road Schools are four votes and the conference bends to them because of that.
The death penalty in NCAA terms isn't an actual death penalty either. UNC would be severely hampered for a while but they would come back - they're too large, wealthy and powerful not to. They aren't a small school like SMU was at the time the hammer fell on them. They quite literally run their state. The ACC is a rich and powerful conference - they would survive them being punished appropriately even if it was as harsh as a death penalty type judgment.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:48 pm to Crowknowsbest
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It could. There's a lot of money at stake.
ESPN is not going to let the ACC dissolve when they have such a large stake in it.
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It's the only example we have.
no, it isnt
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:50 pm to Prof
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I would actually say it's UNC, NC STATE, Wake Forrest and Duke. The North Carolina schools run that conference. But the power UNC wields is that of decision making and internal political power. The Tobacco Road Schools are four votes and the conference bends to them because of that.
You'd be wrong to say that. Wake and NC State are just along for the ride. NC State doesn't even have their own board. UNC runs them, basically.
UVA got VT into the ACC with only one vote in their favor.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:52 pm to Dr RC
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no, it isnt
Give me one. I'm open to other examples.
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ESPN is not going to let the ACC dissolve when they have such a large stake in it.
They wouldn't have a choice if UVA and Duke wanted a piece of the B1G TV deal.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:58 pm to Crowknowsbest
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Give me one. I'm open to other examples.
Kentucky basketball 52/53
ULaLa basketball 73/74 and 74/75
Moorhouse College soccer 2004 and 2005
MacMurray College tennis 2005/06 and 2006/07
University of San Fran and Tulane both imposed self death penalties in 1982 and 1985
every situation is different as is the fallout
The SWC was already dying for a wide variety of reasons when SMU got popped. Texas had already started to look towards the Pac 12 and once A&M and Arkansas got word of that they started talking to the SEC.
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They wouldn't have a choice if UVA and Duke wanted a piece of the B1G TV deal.
Again, ESPN is not going to let the ACC fall apart or lose any more members to the Big 10 when they have such a huge investment in them. Losing teams to the Big 10 means they lose them to competitor FOX which they are going to move against. The ACC will get a full on network like the SECN before ESPN lets it collapse.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 4:04 pm to Dr RC
quote:
Kentucky basketball 52/53
ULaLa basketball 73/74 and 74/75
Moorhouse College soccer 2004 and 2005
MacMurray College tennis 2005/06 and 2006/07
University of San Fran and Tulane both imposed self death penalties in 1982 and 1985
every situation is different as is the fallout
Agreed that they're all different. The UNC fallout would be massive. Not sure how you could argue that.
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The SWC was already dying when SMU got popped for a wide variety of reasons. Texas had already started to look towards the Pac 12 and once A&M and Arkansas got word of that they started talking to the SEC.
Agreed, but I don't think the ACC is as stable as you do at the moment, clearly.
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Again, ESPN is not going to let the ACC fall apart or lose any more members to the Big 10 when they have such a huge investment in them. Losing teams to the Big 10 means they lose them to competitor FOX which they are going to move against. The ACC will get a full on network like the SECN before ESPN lets it collapse.
I suppose this is possible, but at some point it isn't worth it for ESPN to support them, especially if Fox sweetens the deal to get into the VA and NC market. I'm sure ESPN has an out if schools were to leave. This is all hypothetical, if course.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 4:06 pm to Dr RC
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Again, ESPN is not going to let the ACC fall apart or lose any more members to the Big 10 when they have such a huge investment in them. Losing teams to the Big 10 means they lose them to competitor FOX which they are going to move against. The ACC will get a full on network like the SECN before ESPN lets it collapse.
I would say that this would be the reason nothing would happen to UNC. NCAA is a business in NPO clothing. ESPN helps make them cash. Vis-a-vis UNC helps make them cash.
And yes, also Miami not being punished and Penn State getting leniency all points to UNC moving on with it's self-imposed punishments in academics (quite a bit) and athletics (not so much). Think of the fallout from people if they hammer UNC, but let a pedophile-protecting program have its reductions in punishment
Posted on 1/5/15 at 4:08 pm to Crowknowsbest
What I was trying to say is that those 4 schools comprise a power base for North Carolina, specifically UNC. They have 4 solid votes and the conference bends to UNC's wishes. Wake and NC State are along for the ride but they are key votes.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:20 pm to cas4t
quote:
Coach K is a saint
Posted on 1/5/15 at 8:00 pm to Dr RC
I agree SMU is a horrible example. They deemphasized football on purpose. A top program (from a bigger school than SMU) that didn't deemphasize their program could come back much quicker.
A 2 year death penalty wouldn't necessarily hurt UNC's basketball program for very long. With just a couple classes they could be back to mid-ACC level. If they had the right coach.
A 2 year death penalty would hurt longer but a top program such as Bama could be back in 5 years or so. If they had the right coach.
Hell, look at Penn State. Extremely tough sanctions and an even bigger stigma and they won 8 games one year and went to/won a bowl this year. They had a top 15 2015 recruiting class before sanctions were removed and are close to the Top 10 now.
A 2 year death penalty wouldn't necessarily hurt UNC's basketball program for very long. With just a couple classes they could be back to mid-ACC level. If they had the right coach.
A 2 year death penalty would hurt longer but a top program such as Bama could be back in 5 years or so. If they had the right coach.
Hell, look at Penn State. Extremely tough sanctions and an even bigger stigma and they won 8 games one year and went to/won a bowl this year. They had a top 15 2015 recruiting class before sanctions were removed and are close to the Top 10 now.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 12:35 pm to BluegrassBelle
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And sadly, not a thing will be done about it either. Some professors will get axed and Roy will keep on drinking his Coca Cola. And before someone wants to bitch about a UK fan bitching about UNC, I've seen my team on serious probation for improprieties. So it's not like the NCAA has been above popping UK in the past. It's utter bullshite that they've above popping UNC right now.
True!
The NCAA gave UK three years hard time for a little cash in an Emery Express package (don't get me started on how unbelievable the whole story is about the package magically "coming open" at the terminal), yet won't even sanction UNC at all. Duke and UNC are apparently on a special list maintained by the NCAA of teams where any infractions are to be minimized, deflected or ignored.
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