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re: 18 years of fraud at Chapel Hill...
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:44 pm to Crowknowsbest
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:44 pm to Crowknowsbest
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The current students at UNC don't deserve that.
there are, no doubt, student athletes at UNC that went to ONLY legitimate classes, and didn't cheat at all or receive any special favor or treatment.
Do they deserve anything? Maybe not, but in this case the institution has to be punished AS an institution, not in case by case form. When someone who is "innocent" gets hurt because of guilty being punished, we call that a life lesson of knowing who you are doing business with. At the very least, the current student athletes who are not known to be cheating will likely be given an "instant transfer" ruling. They will get by. You don't just "let them all go" because someone who is innocent MIGHT have some added hardship while the guilty are being punished.
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Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:44 pm to Jagd Tiger
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quote:
The university says the blame rests firmly and exclusively with two people: Mr. Nyang’oro and Deborah Crowder, the department manager, who retired in 2009 after 30 years there.
trying to blame 2 people for a wide scale institutional fraud and cover up.. after the NCAA bends them over.. the state of NC should put some of these people in jail.
Trying to blame a black man and woman. Wow...
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:45 pm to tylerdurden24
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But at this point, the students are willingly participating in widespread academic fraud
They are? I'm talking about the current students at UNC, not just athletes. The current athletes likely aren't doing anything wrong either.
Also, think about the collateral damage of the death penalty to other schools in the ACC. There's the financial consequences of losing those games first of all. The B1G wants Virginia and would likely want Duke as well. The Big 12 would want Clemson and FSU. Would those schools just say "frick it" and move on? Pretty good chance of that. A death penalty to UNC could easily result in the demise of the ACC just like it did the SWC. The ramifications of something like that are huge.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:46 pm to cas4t
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Duke finna eat in recruiting
UNC is pale compared to what has gone on at Duke since at least the 50's
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:48 pm to tylerdurden24
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I don't think they deserve it, but they're not totally innocent. Those classes weren;t just for basketball players. Thousands upon thousands of athletes in every sport, as well as regular students, took those courses and received dummy grades. Many students have admitted that they took the courses because they knew they were throw away hours made for the athletes.
Wait, you mean students wanted to take easy classes? UNC's probably the only place where that happens.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:52 pm to Crowknowsbest
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They are? I'm talking about the current students at UNC, not just athletes. The current athletes likely aren't doing anything wrong either.
It totally sucks, but the anger should be aimed at the crooked shits that allowed that to happen at UNC for so long. Someone has to own up for it and two people that no longer work there aren't going to cut it. Furthermore, vacating wins is an empty gesture that nobody pays attention to. Punishment needs to fit the crime, here.
quote:
Also, think about the collateral damage of the death penalty to other schools in the ACC. There's the financial consequences of losing those games first of all. The B1G wants Virginia and would likely want Duke as well. The Big 12 would want Clemson and FSU. Would those schools just say "frick it" and move on? Pretty good chance of that. A death penalty to UNC could easily result in the demise of the ACC just like it did the SWC. The ramifications of something like that are huge.
Yeah, they are. Way to go UNC for fricking over your students and your conference.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:52 pm to tylerdurden24
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Anything else reinforces the farce that shite like this is turning college athletics into.
The problem is this is a glass house situation.
Everyone was willing to pile on Penn State because no one rapes children. But at some level almost every major program in college football has at least one guy who barely qualified that has his assigned piece of tutor meat do his work for him.
Heck to me what happened at Chapel Hill is more an example of the farce that is college athletics today, not what it will turn into. The next threat to amatuer football is not just the colleges covering for the kids, but the entire community doing it too. The way those police officers in Tallahassee have protected Mr. Thug from the law is almost third world shite. That is the real violation.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:53 pm to Crowknowsbest
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hey are? I'm talking about the current students at UNC, not just athletes. The current athletes likely aren't doing anything wrong either.
IF there is a punishment it's not about punishing students, it's about punishing the institution. If the students who had nothing to do with the problem are harmed by the institution's punishment, then it is what it is.
We can't just say, 'this went on for 30 years, but not the past 3 years, so it would be unfair to do anyhthing now b/c UNC has delayed the frick out of this situation."
IF nothing happens to UNC, the watergate opens and ALL schools will more blatantly have paper classes, b/c a precedent was set that the NCAA doesn't really care if the students get an education or not.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:56 pm to Crowknowsbest
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Wait, you mean students wanted to take easy classes? UNC's probably the only place where that happens.
C'mon, man. You know what I mean. There's a difference between the 1 hour Freshman Odyssey class you took for 50 minutes every Friday and a 3 Hour African-American Studies course in which you never attend class and receive guaranteed A's and B's for turning in literally any paper you turn in. Plus, they've uncovered recently that a lot of this stuff extends to other departments throughout the school.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:56 pm to SoGaFan
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The reason it isn't getting a lot of play in the media is because this is a case that truly deserves the death penalty, and NO ONE , including the NCAA wants to do to a MAJOR program ( in BBALL). Too much money at stake. However, THIS should wreck havoc with UNC's accreditation, which would be just as bad.
It's bigger than even that. UNC is a "Southern Ivy" and holds a helluva lot of prestige academically. What they've done jeopardizes everything. The university itself could take an enormous hit, including placing their accreditation on probation (they won't dare pull it). As widescale as this was degrees from UNC could suddenly be on par with degrees from La. Tech. THAT matters even more than football and basketball.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:56 pm to Jagd Tiger
Won't result in any sanctions.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:56 pm to tylerdurden24
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It totally sucks, but the anger should be aimed at the crooked shits that allowed that to happen at UNC for so long. Someone has to own up for it and two people that no longer work there aren't going to cut it. Furthermore, vacating wins is an empty gesture that nobody pays attention to. Punishment needs to fit the crime, here.
Which is why I said there should be a lifetime ban for all involved. I'd be in favor of prison time if it was possible. They were state employees after all.
quote:
Yeah, they are. Way to go UNC for fricking over your students and your conference.
A school like Wake Forest could very well lose it's ability to participate in major college athletics forever. I don't think the collateral damage is worth it, despite the scale of corruption at UNC.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:57 pm to Jagd Tiger
DAS IST GUD
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:58 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
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UNC should get the death penalty.
yup
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:59 pm to CockInYourEar
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IF nothing happens to UNC, the watergate opens and ALL schools will more blatantly have paper classes, b/c a precedent was set that the NCAA doesn't really care if the students get an education or not.
I'm not saying that nothing should happen to UNC. I'm saying they shouldn't get the death penalty.
Hell, take away all their scholarships for two years, but let them keep playing.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:02 pm to cardboardboxer
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But at some level almost every major program in college football has at least one guy who barely qualified that has his assigned piece of tutor meat do his work for him.
Two things:
1.) That's a tired stereotype of college athletics that isn't true for all schools.
2.) Just because some other schools are also doing it doesn't excuse those that get caught.
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Heck to me what happened at Chapel Hill is more an example of the farce that is college athletics today, not what it will turn into.
See, I see it as perpetuating what has become a farce and, by taking a hard line on it now, it helps to curb that image for the future. Allowing shite like this to happen on top of refusing to pay athletes on top of paying coaches $1 million and up is killing the sport.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:04 pm to Prof
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It's bigger than even that. UNC is a "Southern Ivy" and holds a helluva lot of prestige academically. What they've done jeopardizes everything.
yep, this should hurt UNC's prestige dramatically, in fact it really already has. Will it hurt the ACC by extension? yes, but again, you can't overlook the crime for the fact that someone on the sideline is hurt by it. The NCAA will be fine, there will be 65 teams in the tourney regardless and if they don't take drastic measures then the NCAA might as well just disband as being the same fraud as the non-existent UNC classes.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:06 pm to Crowknowsbest
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The NCAA death penalty is what was given to SMU. Two year (or one year) shut down of the program in question. It is basically a twenty year penalty in football, using SMU as a case study. Might not be as bad in basketball, but still really bad.
The current students at UNC don't deserve that.
SMU and the ramifications for the SWC are a terrible example to compare this to.
The situations are different to the point the only comparable thing would be the name of the punishment.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:07 pm to Crowknowsbest
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Hell, take away all their scholarships for two years, but let them keep playing.
what you are arguing is "do next to nothing", because it somehow hurts the students. Again, the students still in the program have the choice to leave and the NCAA can help facilitate that process.
Punishment has to hurt OR IT'S NOT punishment. You need to start understanding that fact.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:08 pm to Jagd Tiger
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what you are arguing is "do next to nothing", because it somehow hurts the students. Again, the students still in the program have the choice to leave and the NCAA can help facilitate that process.
How is that "next to nothing?" That would make them a doormat for the foreseeable future while limiting collateral damage to other schools.
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