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Is it time to grant amnesty for illegal immigrants?
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:15 pm
Estimates have 10-15 million illegals, BLS says the US has a labor force participation of 62.8% of the working population which is 16-64 yrs of age, a healthy number is 68%, with those facts does it hurt the US or help to grant amnesty and be done with this political football. Economist, Larry Kudlow says the US needs these undocumented workers and this would add 1% to GDP. Ths makes no sense to me, maybe someone on Rant can explain Kudlows position. 
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Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:16 pm to JoeMoTiger
No
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:17 pm to JoeMoTiger
No but it is time that they pay income taxes.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:17 pm to JoeMoTiger
Kudlow hangs out with CEOs. CEOs like cheap labor. When you need a straight line, get two data points. I think that about covers it.
Eta: we've granted amnesty before. It doesn't "end" any political football.
Eta: we've granted amnesty before. It doesn't "end" any political football.
This post was edited on 5/18/14 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:18 pm to JoeMoTiger
Yeah, nothing is going to slow the flood of illegals like granting them amnesty.
We are the only country in the world that pussyfoots with this shite, and it's embarrassing.
We are the only country in the world that pussyfoots with this shite, and it's embarrassing.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:20 pm to JoeMoTiger
I hate it, but we are so far beyond the point of no return that I think it is time to consider it.
In my opinion, there is a line between disliking illegal immigration (which I do) and simply not wanting anymore Mexicans in America. I get the feeling that for many, the latter and not the former is their reasoning.
In my opinion, there is a line between disliking illegal immigration (which I do) and simply not wanting anymore Mexicans in America. I get the feeling that for many, the latter and not the former is their reasoning.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:20 pm to the808bass
Income tax revenue would be substantial.
But I'm of the opinion that it they grant amnesty to year people they need to grant amnesty to Bundy in Nevada.
But I'm of the opinion that it they grant amnesty to year people they need to grant amnesty to Bundy in Nevada.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:22 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In my opinion, there is a line between disliking illegal immigration (which I do) and simply not wanting anymore Mexicans in America. I get the feeling that for many, the latter and not the former is their reasoning.
I don't think it's really much of that. Though I'm sure there is some of it. I think the freeloading perception is more of the driver.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:23 pm to bbvdd
quote:
Income tax revenue would be substantial.
No, it wouldn't. If they're working a job, they're already paying FICA. Most illegals don't make high wages, so they won't owe much income tax. Add in a few dependent and they may get EITC. I think it's a net loss on the income tax side.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:30 pm to the808bass
quote:
I think the freeloading perception is more of the driver.
The freeloaders coming to work for less than minimum wage to make a better life for themselves? It's an odd perspective.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:31 pm to Duke
No, it's not. Those who come have kids who are citizens and become a big drain on the system. Immigrant households utilize welfare quite a bit, which is usually painted over by the fact that it's their kids and they're not technically immigrants.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:33 pm to the808bass
That's probably the case overall, but at least in Texas there is a lot of "Those goddamn Mexicans" talk.
I value what they bring to our economy (they take jobs no one else will take) but I do wish there was a feasible way to at least slow this tide of illegals. I just don't see a good way of doing it, and if they are legal they are at least all required to pay taxes.
I value what they bring to our economy (they take jobs no one else will take) but I do wish there was a feasible way to at least slow this tide of illegals. I just don't see a good way of doing it, and if they are legal they are at least all required to pay taxes.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
they take jobs no one else will take at that wage
FIFY
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I hate it, but we are so far beyond the point of no return that I think it is time to consider it. In my opinion, there is a line between disliking illegal immigration (which I do) and simply not wanting anymore Mexicans in America. I get the feeling that for many, the latter and not the former is their reasoning.
I don't like it but I agree with you word for word.*
Problem for me is if we grant them amnesty then 5 years later we have 5 million new illegal immigrants again who don't want to obey the laws. Break the laws for political expediency this time and you set the standard.
*And I mean I don't like that I agree with you on something and that that's the case.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I hate it, but we are so far beyond the point of no return that I think it is time to consider it. In my opinion, there is a line between disliking illegal immigration (which I do) and simply not wanting anymore Mexicans in America. I get the feeling that for many, the latter and not the former is their reasoning.
My concern is we already have so many Americans not working, obviously these people are getting government aid and many are 2nd and 3rd generation in the welfare system, I'm trying to figure out how RINO Kudlow can think adding 10-15 million to the work force is going to grow GDP another 1%, seems what you gain in cheap labor we tax payers lose to higher taxes to expand the welfare state to take care of citizens who can't find employment or refuse to work. I bet if we had CEO's, economists, lawyers, etc coming into the country the borders would be locked down tight
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:45 pm to the808bass
In the long haul they're going to be assets. We'll be the only first world economy with population growth that isn't Muslim (have fun with that Europe) and people from a culture very similar to our own. Yes much of central America is kinda left leaning socialist, but Mexico has been ruled by the center right for a very long time. People who put a value on education for their children to give their families a better life. The people you want on government assistance because they have a better chance than any to actually do something productive with it than your third generation welfare recipient.
Give them two generations and the welfare numbers won't be different than any other group in America, meaning most will be productive members of the economy. Immigrants have traditionally been a boon to America. We've only accepted them kicking and screaming but long term they add more than they take. This time will be no different.
All of that pontificating being said, amnesty is a hard pill to swallow even though it's the only reasonable solution left to the illegal problem. We do need to reform our legal immigration system. I'm all for a tall wall but a wide gate. The 21st century calls for more open trade and open immigration. We can embrace the future and reform our immigration to let in more legal immigrants (of all nationalities) or cling to xenophobia and give the rest of the world even better standing to catch up with us.
I'm a bit to buzzed to have a proper debate 808, but I'll be happy to re engage tomorrow. That is the basics of my view on the matter. I realize the complexities of the situation and issues and that no fix is easy, but a more reasonable and forward thinking view to both immigration and free trade will make America stronger in 20, 40, 60 years.
Give them two generations and the welfare numbers won't be different than any other group in America, meaning most will be productive members of the economy. Immigrants have traditionally been a boon to America. We've only accepted them kicking and screaming but long term they add more than they take. This time will be no different.
All of that pontificating being said, amnesty is a hard pill to swallow even though it's the only reasonable solution left to the illegal problem. We do need to reform our legal immigration system. I'm all for a tall wall but a wide gate. The 21st century calls for more open trade and open immigration. We can embrace the future and reform our immigration to let in more legal immigrants (of all nationalities) or cling to xenophobia and give the rest of the world even better standing to catch up with us.
I'm a bit to buzzed to have a proper debate 808, but I'll be happy to re engage tomorrow. That is the basics of my view on the matter. I realize the complexities of the situation and issues and that no fix is easy, but a more reasonable and forward thinking view to both immigration and free trade will make America stronger in 20, 40, 60 years.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:50 pm to Duke
Well said and I agree with most all of what you said, particularly the first paragraph.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:50 pm to JoeMoTiger
I'm ok with it if we put forth certain guidelines.
No full citizenship rights for 10 years pending that you show you were employed full time for 8 of those years and no major crime convictions during that time. Can't vote or receive welfare or federal money until full citizenship is granted.
Border must be secured and enforced strictly. Any illegals caught after amnesty is granted will be put in the system and never allowed to enter the country legally for their lifetime or ever be granted citizenship here.
No full citizenship rights for 10 years pending that you show you were employed full time for 8 of those years and no major crime convictions during that time. Can't vote or receive welfare or federal money until full citizenship is granted.
Border must be secured and enforced strictly. Any illegals caught after amnesty is granted will be put in the system and never allowed to enter the country legally for their lifetime or ever be granted citizenship here.
Posted on 5/18/14 at 9:53 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
Posted on 5/18/14 at 10:01 pm to JoeMoTiger
quote:
Is it time to grant amnesty for illegal immigrants?
Fine by me.
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