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Was ND THAT out-talented in the NC, or is it development?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:00 am
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:00 am
I know the first instinct is gonna be to say "lulz, SEC talent > yankees."
However, ND has been bringing in a lot of SEC talent under Kelly. I'm leaning that it HAS to be development and possibly Strength and conditioning.
Here is a sample of ND's players from last year and their respective SEC offers. Most have SEC offers. Some from Bama even. Looking down this defense, they shouldn't have been THAT overmatched. They're no worse talent-wise than A&M or USCe or UGA.
All per Rivals.com
Defense:
DE Kapron Lewis Moore---4*--TAMU
DE Stephon Tuitt-----5*--Aub,UF,UGA,LSU,USC,UT,VU
NT Louix Nix------------4*--UF,Ole Miss,USC
LB Prince Shembo--------4*--UT
LB Ishaq Williams-------5*--Bama, UF, USC
LB Manti Teo------------5*--UT
LB Dan Fox--------------4*
CB Keivarae Russell-----4*--Vandy (from WA state)
CB Lo wood--------------3*--USC
FS Jamoris Slaughter----4*--UGA
SS Zeke Motta-----------4*--UF, Auburn
Here are some depth players, most of whom are young. It looks like they have been improving on talent here:
DL Jarron Jones--------4*--Bama, Aub, UF, UT
DL Sheldon Day---------4*--Ark, UF, LSU, UT
LB Romeo Okwara--------3*--Vandy
LB Carlo Calabrese-----3*--UF
LB Jarrett Grace-------4*--UT, Vandy
DB Elijah Shumate------4*--UGA, USC
Their offense with riddick, Wood, Golson, GAIII, Jones, Daniels, and Neal all have SEC offers, including Bama. OL was their only spot with little SEC talent, but that's changing with this recruiting class.
Is this an indictment on Kelly's ability to develop or an indictment on a lack of aggressive "attitude" from the coaching staff?
Would you argue this isn't an SEC defense, talent-wise? If so, why?
However, ND has been bringing in a lot of SEC talent under Kelly. I'm leaning that it HAS to be development and possibly Strength and conditioning.
Here is a sample of ND's players from last year and their respective SEC offers. Most have SEC offers. Some from Bama even. Looking down this defense, they shouldn't have been THAT overmatched. They're no worse talent-wise than A&M or USCe or UGA.
All per Rivals.com
Defense:
DE Kapron Lewis Moore---4*--TAMU
DE Stephon Tuitt-----5*--Aub,UF,UGA,LSU,USC,UT,VU
NT Louix Nix------------4*--UF,Ole Miss,USC
LB Prince Shembo--------4*--UT
LB Ishaq Williams-------5*--Bama, UF, USC
LB Manti Teo------------5*--UT
LB Dan Fox--------------4*
CB Keivarae Russell-----4*--Vandy (from WA state)
CB Lo wood--------------3*--USC
FS Jamoris Slaughter----4*--UGA
SS Zeke Motta-----------4*--UF, Auburn
Here are some depth players, most of whom are young. It looks like they have been improving on talent here:
DL Jarron Jones--------4*--Bama, Aub, UF, UT
DL Sheldon Day---------4*--Ark, UF, LSU, UT
LB Romeo Okwara--------3*--Vandy
LB Carlo Calabrese-----3*--UF
LB Jarrett Grace-------4*--UT, Vandy
DB Elijah Shumate------4*--UGA, USC
Their offense with riddick, Wood, Golson, GAIII, Jones, Daniels, and Neal all have SEC offers, including Bama. OL was their only spot with little SEC talent, but that's changing with this recruiting class.
Is this an indictment on Kelly's ability to develop or an indictment on a lack of aggressive "attitude" from the coaching staff?
Would you argue this isn't an SEC defense, talent-wise? If so, why?
18
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:03 am to Moustache
quote:
Would you argue this isn't an SEC defense, talent-wise? If so, why?
Iron sharpens iron. If they are playing their weak schedule, they'll never get better. The Aggie defense for instance dominated an Oklahoma offense that had a tendency to score. A lot of that had to do with going through the SEC gauntlet.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:05 am to Moustache
Both. But they're coming on. Definitely will be a team to contend with in the coming years.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:06 am to Moustache
quote:
All per Rivals.com
Rivals took away a star for a recruit who had his offered pulled from a SEC school and signed with a Sunbelt school.
Do you not think that perhaps Rivals also adds stars to recruits who commit/sign with ND/big name BCS schools?
Auburn and Tennessee were two of the worst teams in the SEC last year, both have had several highly ranked recruiting classes on their roster.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:06 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Iron sharpens iron. If they are playing their weak schedule, they'll never get better. The Aggie defense for instance dominated an Oklahoma offense that had a tendency to score. A lot of that had to do with going through the SEC gauntlet.
True. In ND's defense, everyone thought they had a tough schedule going in. It's not like everyone expected everyone on ND's schedule to have a shite year.
But, why then, is Boise able to dick-slap UGA? Or MSU able to beat UGA and Mich able to compete with USCe, despite having shite at QB?
How was Louisville able to stomp UF?
The only team that has consistently beaten OOC opponents to a pulp is bama.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:09 am to DaleDenton
quote:
Rivals took away a star for a recruit who had his offered pulled from a SEC school and signed with a Sunbelt school.
Do you not think that perhaps Rivals also adds stars to recruits who commit/sign with ND/big name BCS schools?
Auburn and Tennessee were two of the worst teams in the SEC last year, both have had several highly ranked recruiting classes on their roster.
Which is why I added the offers in there. Also, many of the recruits are ranked before they even commit, so this myth that perpetuates that the recruiting services add a star when they commit to ND is just that, a myth.
quote:
Auburn and Tennessee were two of the worst teams in the SEC last year, both have had several highly ranked recruiting classes on their roster.
Tennessee has had pretty weak classes in recruiting. Being 20th in the nation is not an accomplishment when you play in the SEC. Plus, Dooley was an absolute tard.
Auburn had some talent, but had no identity on offense and absolutely had a tard at coach.
That just leans me to say it was more coaching/development than talent.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:12 am to Moustache
Michigan doesnt have shite at QB. They have a former 5 star and 1 duel threat QB.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:12 am to Moustache
ND would have lost to UGA, LSU, TAMU, and maybe UF or USCE.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:14 am to TreyAnastasio
quote:
Michigan doesnt have shite at QB. They have a former 5 star and 1 duel threat QB.
Last season Robinson was pretty much garbage and Gardner was still growing and making mistakes.
Gardner may turn into a great QB, but I seriously doubt Shane morris turns into fricking anything.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:14 am to Moustache
quote:
But, why then, is Boise able to dick-slap UGA? Or MSU able to beat UGA
Richt gonna Richt. When that happens to Alabama or LSU, then it'll be an interesting phenomenon
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to Moustache
Robinson wasnt the QB for the bowl. Gradner is a fricking beast. Morris was a 4 star till he got mono. He'll be fine.
75-126 1219 YDS 11tdS 5INTS 161.7 QBR
If that is him still feeling things out, Im ok with that.
75-126 1219 YDS 11tdS 5INTS 161.7 QBR
If that is him still feeling things out, Im ok with that.
This post was edited on 7/30/13 at 11:18 am
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to schexyoung
quote:
ND would have lost to UGA, LSU, TAMU, and maybe UF or USCE.
Ok. That doesn't answer the fricking question. This isn't a "hate on ND" thread or rank them in the SEC.
I'm wondering more of WHY they would lose to those teams when they have equal talent?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to Moustache
Alabama was a great offense last year, especially when Cooper emerged.
I think their D kinda shat the bed a little as well. You could tell they had some talented guys, but they just got punched in the mouth early and could never recover.
Their secondary was exposed as well - they didn't face too many good QB/WR combos like AJ and Cooper during their regular season.
I think their D kinda shat the bed a little as well. You could tell they had some talented guys, but they just got punched in the mouth early and could never recover.
Their secondary was exposed as well - they didn't face too many good QB/WR combos like AJ and Cooper during their regular season.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to Moustache
If you ever watch a replay of the BCS championship focus in on ND #17 Zeke Motta. He was literally bouncing off of Lacy and even Amari Cooper. He could not bring them down at all, much less barely slow them down. Dan Fox got blasted the whole game. He slung Lacy' helmet off on the first drive and looks to the ref for an explanation. Doofus.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to schexyoung
ND would have had a trainwreck against UF's defense.
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:15 am to TreyAnastasio
quote:
Gradner is a fricking beast
He might be, but I haven't seen it yet. What are you basing it on?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:17 am to Moustache
quote:
He might be, but I haven't seen it yet. What are you basing it on?
Him beasting last year
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:17 am to BamalaAnderson
quote:
If you ever watch a replay of the BCS championship focus in on ND #17 Zeke Motta. He was literally bouncing off of Lacy and even Amari Cooper. He could not bring them down at all, much less barely slow them down. Dan Fox got blasted the whole game. He slung Lacy' helmet off on the first drive and looks to the ref for an explanation. Doofus.
So is it S&C? Or do you believe there's some sort of genetic thing that happens when players from the south go north of the Mason dixon line to play football?
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:19 am to Moustache
As far as talent it's like this a team can have all the talented players in the world if they don't have a coach that can develop them they're not going to put out like they are supposed to. Some schools just pull a lot of stars and sure talent will get you buy in some situations. In many instances it comes down to xo's and that's where you saw the huge gap in the game that along with getting players that actually fit your system and not just grabbing at players cause they're ranked highly
Posted on 7/30/13 at 11:20 am to Moustache
quote:
Which is why I added the offers in there. Also, many of the recruits are ranked before they even commit, so this myth that perpetuates that the recruiting services add a star when they commit to ND is just that, a myth.
They also do re-rankings throughout the year, I didn't say committing to ND = a +1 star.
Going to offers is fine, but you have to take into account they are not perfect, like a #1 ranked QB looking for playing time on the FCS level.
quote:
Tennessee has had pretty weak classes in recruiting. Being 20th in the nation is not an accomplishment when you play in the SEC. Plus, Dooley was an absolute tard.
Auburn had some talent, but had no identity on offense and absolutely had a tard at coach.
That just leans me to say it was more coaching/development than talent.
Sure, but top 20 is still good enough to finish with more than 1 SEC win.
Kelly has a proven track record of development to winning at Cinci and directional Michigan U.
If anything, what you saw was a team playing on the big stage for the first time against a team use too it.
Were people questioning Saban's ability to coach/develop after Utah beat him in the Sugar Bowl? Utah was use to playing on the big stage at that time, Bama not so much.
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