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re: Will removing all these symbols rectify what caused the SC shooting?
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:57 pm to MoreLawdawg
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:57 pm to MoreLawdawg
Please show us on the doll where gun regulation has reduced killing in Mexico.
Take your time, this is a safe place.
Take your time, this is a safe place.
1
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:57 pm to the808bass
quote:
I'd argue that the root cause of this crime is practically unable to be easily addressed in a free society.
People hate. They act on hate.
And with the forgiveness by the church members, the left needed to keep the racial divisiveness going in another way. Presto! Attack a symbol you think your opponent won't surrender and make his lack of surrender a "re-murdering" of the innocents. They didn't count on acquiescence.
So, on to another cause and another symbol to keep the fight going.
If I could have given you a dump truck full of green arrows for that, I would have. Well said.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 1:03 pm to MoreLawdawg
quote:
Gun regulation. Period.
The top 5 countries in the world (and 8 of the top 10) for mass shootings have restrictive gun laws. So please tell me how more restrictive gun control would help? All it would do is remove the ability law abiding citizens have to protect themselves.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 1:04 pm to Mootsman
quote:
So I guess innocent until proven guilty makes no sense to you? Should that be struck from the legal process?
Apparently I wasn't clear. Courts routinely impose restrictions on an accused. Such as: not leaving the state or country, reporting to a pretrial officer, being drug screened. Not possessing a firearm is a logical as well...once again...my opinion.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 1:37 pm to Alahunter
I don't know... but I did drive by the former n.b. forrest high school today. It is still a piece of shite, but with a newer sign
Posted on 6/23/15 at 2:30 pm to Alahunter
Best tweet maybe ever, someone said:
"What flag are they flying up in Chicago that causes all those murders up there?"
"What flag are they flying up in Chicago that causes all those murders up there?"
Posted on 6/23/15 at 2:36 pm to Numberwang
This thread wasn't made with the intention to become a flag/not flag issue. I wanted folks to think for a minute, beyond the media narrative and the grandstanding of politicians, as though that will fix the problem. It doesn't even put a band aid on it. I'm saddened as a citizen, to see so much arguing about a somewhat trivial matter, imo, in relation to the evil act that took 9 lives.
Don't think there aren't others out there capable of committing such an atrocity, against any other race simply because of hate, self loathing, ignorance, uneducated, stuck in poverty.... a myriad of reasons that combine to drive someone to do such an evil act. Yet as a whole, all those issues are used by politicians to separate and divide folks. And the media pushes that narrative. Until the next tragedy happens.. then the next "simple" fix or legislation is passed to make everyone feel better.. then rinse/repeat.
Don't think there aren't others out there capable of committing such an atrocity, against any other race simply because of hate, self loathing, ignorance, uneducated, stuck in poverty.... a myriad of reasons that combine to drive someone to do such an evil act. Yet as a whole, all those issues are used by politicians to separate and divide folks. And the media pushes that narrative. Until the next tragedy happens.. then the next "simple" fix or legislation is passed to make everyone feel better.. then rinse/repeat.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 2:37 pm to Numberwang
quote:
"What flag are they flying up in Chicago that causes all those murders up there?"
Damn sure ain't the Pennant
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:13 pm to Alahunter
Of course not.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:39 pm to KajunGator
quote:
The top 5 countries in the world (and 8 of the top 10) for mass shootings have restrictive gun laws. So please tell me how more restrictive gun control would help? All it would do is remove the ability law abiding citizens have to protect themselves.
quote:
The top 5 countries in the world (and 8 of the top 10) for mass shootings have restrictive gun laws. So please tell me how more restrictive gun control would help? All it would do is remove the ability law abiding citizens have to protect themselves.
I think I found the chart you are using on a website called ijreview. What stands out to me is the number of Total Rampage Shooting Incidents from 2009-2013. 38 for the U.S. the next closest is Germany with 3!!
Also, Total Rampage Shooting Fatalities 2009-2013 is 227 for the U.S. Next closest is Finland at 77.
We have exponentially more rampage shooting incidents, significantly more rampage shooting deaths and we're the only country listed as having "permissive" gun laws. And you don't see a correlation
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:46 pm to Numberwang
Lot of strawmen in here taking brutal beatings from the gun nuts.
Well that's silly and convoluted.
quote:
Best tweet maybe ever, someone said:
"What flag are they flying up in Chicago that causes all those murders up there?"
Well that's silly and convoluted.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:50 pm to Alahunter
quote:
I wanted folks to think for a minute, beyond the media narrative and the grandstanding of politicians, as though that will fix the problem.
Well, the underlying problem is hate and hatred for an entire race of people. To many, the flag is a symbol of that same hatred, and it's displayed on the grounds of State House, in the same state where the killing occurred. How can we expect to have an honest discussion about hatred, in a state where the hate-fueled killing occurred, when the state's government still flies a flag of hatred on their grounds?
Removing the flag isn't going to fix anything, and I don't think anyone expects it to. But if we're going to move forward as a state, as a country, and face down the issue of hatred that can sometimes manifest into such an tragedy, we must first demand the government that represents us doesn't sanction the flying of a flag that represents that same hatred.
I don't see why that is so hard for some people to get.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:57 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Well, the underlying problem is hate and hatred for an entire race of people. To many, the flag is a symbol of that same hatred, and it's displayed on the grounds of State House, in the same state where the killing occurred. How can we expect to have an honest discussion about hatred, in a state where the hate-fueled killing occurred, when the state's government still flies a flag of hatred on their grounds?
Removing the flag isn't going to fix anything, and I don't think anyone expects it to. But if we're going to move forward as a state, as a country, and face down the issue of hatred that can sometimes manifest into such an tragedy, we must first demand the government that represents us doesn't sanction the flying of a flag that represents that same hatred.
I don't see why that is so hard for some people to get.
Agreed.
I don't get why people are opposed to removing a symbol w/ the purpose of changing the culture of racism that exists in the state. A culture that as of now appears to be tacitly endorsed by our government.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 3:57 pm to MoreLawdawg
Although I agree that gun laws should be addressed, I feel that the debate, for the most part, is superficial. The U.S. is very different from any other country. These differences should also be discussed, along with the gun laws.
America is diversed. Race related problems can lead to violence.
Americans are addicted to prescription drugs. Some of these drugs are incredibly powerful. Many of these sociopaths were under the influence of these drugs.
American parents can be pretty awful. Why are you buying your fricked up children guns?
Income inequality is more of an issue in this country. Poor people commit crime.
Lots of factors to think about when it comes to violent crime. The gun issue is just one of those factors. It just happens to be the sexiest factor so it gets all the coverage.
America is diversed. Race related problems can lead to violence.
Americans are addicted to prescription drugs. Some of these drugs are incredibly powerful. Many of these sociopaths were under the influence of these drugs.
American parents can be pretty awful. Why are you buying your fricked up children guns?
Income inequality is more of an issue in this country. Poor people commit crime.
Lots of factors to think about when it comes to violent crime. The gun issue is just one of those factors. It just happens to be the sexiest factor so it gets all the coverage.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:00 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
I don't get why people are opposed to removing a symbol
I get the sense that people really aren't opposed to removing it, they just resent the fact that the "liberal media" and "yankees" are leading the charge to remove it.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:01 pm to thomass
quote:
Although I agree that gun laws should be addressed, I feel that the debate, for the most part, is superficial. The U.S. is very different from any other country. These differences should also be discussed, along with the gun laws.
America is diversed. Race related problems can lead to violence.
Americans are addicted to prescription drugs. Some of these drugs are incredibly powerful. Many of these sociopaths were under the influence of these drugs.
American parents can be pretty awful. Why are you buying your fricked up children guns?
Income inequality is more of an issue in this country. Poor people commit crime.
Lots of factors to think about when it comes to violent crime. The gun issue is just one of those factors. It just happens to be the sexiest factor so it gets all the coverage.
This is what's funny to me. You listed several additional problems aside from gun regulation that you suggest are related to the remarkable amount of gun violence that exists in the U.S. Those are:
1) Race Relations
2) Prescription Drugs
3) Parenting
4) Income Inequality
OK. Well what do conservatives have to say a/b those issues?
1) Ha
2) Less gov't regulation, not more
3) Prob what they're best on from a rhetoric standpoint but they still want to cut social aid programs
4) Doesn't exist to them and if it does it's not an issue
It's a fundamentally unserious party w/ little interest in actual governance.
This post was edited on 6/23/15 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:03 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Please show us on the doll where gun regulation has reduced killing in Mexico.
Take your time, this is a safe place.
It's kinda funny because I hear this argument all the time -- if weapons weren't available from America, it'd mean the cartels wouldn't have access to assault rifles.
All of the weapons I've picked up from here have been from China; most are cheap AK47 (WASR) types that made their way across the world and got here, few are from America if any.
1. They're higher quality.
2. More expensive.
If these people want weapons, they have two other surefire sources -- China and Africa. They're worse in quality, but still attained pretty easily.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:04 pm to WheelRoute
Touché.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:04 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I get the sense that people really aren't opposed to removing it, they just resent the fact that the "liberal media" and "yankees" are leading the charge to remove it.
Our Republican governor is leading the charge on this one, supported by many Republican leaders (though, the actual lawmakers who will be voting on this issue are playing it pretty close to the vest).
Clemson, USC, hell even the Carolina Panthers are calling for its removal. Nearly any significant media figure w/ a tie to the state is advocating for it to come down.
South Carolina is a state full of seriously intractable people who hate being told what to do, and it has rarely served us well, so I get your point. But there's a huge movement for change coming from WITHIN the state, too.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 4:10 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
Our Republican governor is leading the charge on this one
Sure, but I do wonder if she would be doing such had there not been public outcry. I don't know much about her to really say. She has seemed genuine in the comments I've seen her make over the past few days though.
But I guess I didn't word my statement correctly. There's a tone in this thread, and on the Political Board, and on Facebook, hell just about everywhere I've seen, that the flag removal is media driven. And I think there is some resentment of that.
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