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Will removing all these symbols rectify what caused the SC shooting?
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:45 am
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:45 am
While symbols that may be offensive are being targeted to be removed from different states, it seems to me that the underlying issue of what caused the shooting is still being ignored.
I'm not saying removing these things from State's grounds may not be the right thing to do, but nationwide and even on here, it seems that media and many in the civil rights community have latched on to the idea that a piece of cloth is what caused the hatred and shooting that happened. Same with blaming guns.
Is there nobody that can see the stupidity in ignoring the root causes of tragedies like these, much like higher crime rates in inner cities?
I'm not saying removing these things from State's grounds may not be the right thing to do, but nationwide and even on here, it seems that media and many in the civil rights community have latched on to the idea that a piece of cloth is what caused the hatred and shooting that happened. Same with blaming guns.
Is there nobody that can see the stupidity in ignoring the root causes of tragedies like these, much like higher crime rates in inner cities?
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Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:46 am to Alahunter
quote:
root causes
C'mon it's the flag man! Get with the program
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:48 am to Alahunter
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ignoring the root causes of tragedies like these
Nobody is ignoring the root causes.
Symbols which many have clung to for centuries as rallying points of hate need to be relegated to historical settings, not lauded in seats of government. There is no stupidity in this.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:48 am to Alahunter
I'd argue that the root cause of this crime is practically unable to be easily addressed in a free society.
People hate. They act on hate.
And with the forgiveness by the church members, the left needed to keep the racial divisiveness going in another way. Presto! Attack a symbol you think your opponent won't surrender and make his lack of surrender a "re-murdering" of the innocents. They didn't count on acquiescence.
So, on to another cause and another symbol to keep the fight going.
People hate. They act on hate.
And with the forgiveness by the church members, the left needed to keep the racial divisiveness going in another way. Presto! Attack a symbol you think your opponent won't surrender and make his lack of surrender a "re-murdering" of the innocents. They didn't count on acquiescence.
So, on to another cause and another symbol to keep the fight going.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:56 am to Alahunter
quote:
Is there nobody that can see the stupidity in ignoring the root causes of tragedies like these, much like higher crime rates in inner cities?
We're not all ignoring them, but recognize attacking the root causes are nearly impossible. Too big and too complex to be addressed quickly.
The flag movement is just people reacting to people getting mowed down in a church because of hatred. Hatred is an emotion, an idea that you can't directly address. So we tie the emotion to a symbol and tear it down. At least it's a symbol I'm happy to see go.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:57 am to Alahunter
The kid was also sporting apartheid patches that had nothing to do with the United States.
As said, people who want to hate will hate. And a lot of that begins in the home. Until that changes, racism isn't going anywhere. No matter how many statues or flags you take down.
As said, people who want to hate will hate. And a lot of that begins in the home. Until that changes, racism isn't going anywhere. No matter how many statues or flags you take down.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:58 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Nobody is ignoring the root causes
What else is being done besides removing items from State grounds? As I said, I'm not saying it isn't right to do this, but it seems folks are acting as though that's the final solution.
Did the kid make a pilgrimage to visit that Flag at the state capital before the shooting spree? Or to the statue's at other places, or have pay a car tag fee for the Son's of Confederate Soldiers on it?
Was it simply these symbols that drove him to murder 9 people? And if not, what did and what is being done to address those things?
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:58 am to Alahunter
Don't be dumb.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:00 pm to Alahunter
Of course it won't rectify what happened, but removing them on things such as Statehouses should have been done long ago. There's no place for them there.
The history of the war won't die because government institutions aren't flying flags. To some they are symbols of hate, so a government that is supposed to be for the people shouldn't partake in their use.
Now as far as forbidding individuals from using them? No,that should not happen.
The history of the war won't die because government institutions aren't flying flags. To some they are symbols of hate, so a government that is supposed to be for the people shouldn't partake in their use.
Now as far as forbidding individuals from using them? No,that should not happen.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:01 pm to the808bass
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So, on to another cause and another symbol to keep the fight going.
Next, they will call the Sons of Confederate Veterans a White Supremacist hate group
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:03 pm to Duke
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The flag movement is just people reacting to people getting mowed down in a church because of hatred. Hatred is an emotion, an idea that you can't directly address. So we tie the emotion to a symbol and tear it down
Precisely, an in today's society, do you honestly think that anything will be addressed once the "feel good" reaction of removing symbols is done? Remember last yr when I said the Zimmerman thing and all things surrounding it would be forgotten in place of the next shiny crisis?
I'm not saying keep any of those things on State property, I'm just saying and observing, that it will be the end to the "solution" because of the A.D.D. society we live in and watch and see, nothing else will be addressed or attempted to solve it. Just like inner city crime. Forget addressing poverty, lack of education.. let's ban something, make folks feel good and get re-elected.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:05 pm to Alahunter
From a mental health standpoint nothing will be done. Same for anyone hoping for more restrictions on gun control.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:07 pm to Alahunter
Southern conservatives are incorrigible. The answer to your question is NO. Sensible gun regulations will.
Removing symbols of the confederacy from government property is not a conversation that started last week. It's been taking place for a number of years. Unfortunately, it took last week's tragedy to reignite that debate in South Carolina.
As a practical matter, Rev. Pinckney's body will lie in state at the SC Capitol building this week. The irony of visitors having to walk past that flag on their way to pay respects is a bit much.
Removing symbols of the confederacy from government property is not a conversation that started last week. It's been taking place for a number of years. Unfortunately, it took last week's tragedy to reignite that debate in South Carolina.
As a practical matter, Rev. Pinckney's body will lie in state at the SC Capitol building this week. The irony of visitors having to walk past that flag on their way to pay respects is a bit much.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:11 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Precisely, an in today's society, do you honestly think that anything will be addressed once the "feel good" reaction of removing symbols is done?
No, but I'm not even sure what to address much less how to address it. Humans are emotional animals. How do we legislate away our base nature?
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Remember last yr when I said the Zimmerman thing and all things surrounding it would be forgotten in place of the next shiny crisis?
Well I'd argue everything from Ferguson to Baltimore is an extention of the Zimmerman case.
I get your point though.
quote:
Forget addressing poverty, lack of education.. let's ban something, make folks feel good and get re-elected.
Complex issues with complex solutions never gain traction. So we do this song and dance with symbolic solutions and don't learn anything. Too much money to be made politicizing. Too much power to be gained by politicizing.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:11 pm to MoreLawdawg
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Sensible gun regulations will
What sensible gun regulation would have kept that tragedy from happening? The firearm held 10 rounds or less, he was aged 21 or older, had no criminal record, it was illegal to possess a firearm in a church...What else would have been sensible?
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Unfortunately, it took last week's tragedy to reignite that debate in South Carolina.
And what will that do to prevent the next racist shooting, or killing?
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As a practical matter, Rev. Pinckney's body will lie in state at the SC Capitol building this week. The irony of visitors having to walk past that flag on their way to pay respects is a bit much
As I stated, I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do to remove them. I'm asking, how can anyone think it's the solution, because you're not hearing a damn thing else on how to solve it, other than gun control and I'll await your replies to those questions posed to you before commenting further on that "solution".
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:12 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Symbols which many have clung to for centuries as rallying points of hate need to be relegated to historical settings, not lauded in seats of government.
But a lot of these Confederate monuments and such are on the grounds of state houses and public universities because they were placed there at a time when those were your main public thoroughfares. There are already rumblings of not just removing the flag but also the monument. It's already been defaced in the last few days as well. That I have a real issue with. Especially in a war that involved such a large scope of Americans and was brother vs. brother.
Across from statues of leaders like Abraham Lincoln in our statehouse is a statue of Jefferson Davis. That's still a large part of history here and now we also have people wanting to change the Commonwealth flag because Henry Clay and Daniel Boone aren't "diverse enough" and owned slaves. So are we just going to start erasing everything before the civil rights movement? Are we going to systematically begin removing people from history because their past may be checkered?
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:13 pm to Alahunter
No, both sides will use this to argue about their agendas thus distracting you from what they are really doing which is working together to keep the status quo because that's what makes money.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:13 pm to Alahunter
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folks are acting as though that's the final solution.
No one is doing this. I've yet to hear or read one proponent of the flag's removal intimating that that will be a panacea.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:13 pm to Duke
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Complex issues with complex solutions never gain traction. So we do this song and dance with symbolic solutions and don't learn anything. Too much money to be made politicizing. Too much power to be gained by politicizing.
Ding ding.
You'll be a fellow cynic before too long.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 12:14 pm to MoreLawdawg
quote:
Sensible gun regulations will.
Yes...because all the people who have committed these killings acquired their weapons the "legal" way. Make it harder to get weapons "legally" so these criminals can't get their hands on them.
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