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re: What drugs do you think should be legal?
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:19 pm to TeLeFaWx
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:19 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I think there are plenty of drugs we can let people enjoy and still keep meth illegal.
They'll still make it, the legality doesn't matter. Have it out in the open. You can regulate it, but I'd rather not have Billy Bob cooking his batch in his trailer full of kids. You can keep harsh penalties on those that buy unregulated, that would give people the incentive to not go to Billy Bob, and Billy Bob would disappear.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 10:27 pm
2
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:20 pm to AUbagman
quote:
Then state that in your OP if that's not what you're inferring.
I imply. You infer. It's English.
Potheads are stupid. I assume you're representing them admirably here.
quote:
decriminalized countries drug use has went down
Falso.
quote:
AS THE coffee shops boomed between 1984 and 1996, marijuana use among Dutch youths aged 18 to 25 leapt by well over 200 percent. In 1997, there was a 25 percent increase in the number of registered cannabis addicts receiving treatment for their habit, as compared to a mere 3 percent rise in cases of alcohol abuse.
quote:
But even if one accepts the Trimbos figures as correct, they represent almost a tripling of the number of Dutch addicts since the country liberalized its drug policies. They also mean that Holland has twice as many heroin addicts per capita as Britain, which is known for having one of the most serious heroin problems in Europe. Furthermore, the number of heroin addicts being treated in the methadone-maintenance programs run by the Ministry of Public Health went from 6,511 in 1988 to 9,838 in 1997, an increase of just over 50 percent--hardly an indication that heroin use has declined since the introduction of the coffee-shop law.
LINK
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:22 pm to derSturm37
quote:
Unless you're wealthy they'll be able to utilize fines and fees to effectively tell you what you can eat, drink, and not smoke. It will be glorious.
Id say they stand make much more off the medicines/treatments prescribed for all those things listed than trying to make people healthier. We aren't getting healthier and we aren going to get healthier as a nation anytime soon. Our food system is really fricked up.
To the OP, I'd say all drugs should be legal to use at the age of 21. If someone wants to live their life as a needle junkie, they should be able to do so provided they aren't harming others and at no cost to the taxpayer in terms of rehab and shite. As far as government reach and regulation regarding this...well, that's where it would get tricky.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:25 pm to the808bass
quote:
I imply. You infer. It's English.
Potheads are stupid. I assume you're representing them admirably here.
I have smoked one time and it wasn't for me, but thanks for your concern. I just examine governmental policy and their impacts. Also, thanks for the grammar correction, you won't be able to do that often. Also, to assume someone is stupid by misusing one word speaks volumes on your intellect.
quote:
Falso.
They chose the safer alternative to alcohol. Smart choice on their part. I was speaking in terms of what we consider hard illicit drugs.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:27 pm to AUbagman
quote:
Almost anything can be enjoyed in moderation. Regardless, alcohol is almost as addictive as meth, while nicotine is more addictive, both kill far, far more people.
True. The 10 hardest drugs to kick.
1. Heroin
2. Crack Cocaine
3. Nicotine
4. Methadone
5. Crystal Meth
6. Alcohol
7. Cocaine
8. Amphetamines
9. Benzodiazepines
10. GHB
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:28 pm to AUbagman
quote:
hard, illicit drugs
Reread the link. Or even just the quotes I posted. Unless you're asserting heroin isn't a hard drug.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:28 pm to AUbagman
I don't think that legalizing methamphetamine as it's currently known would be wise. As others have pointed out there are other amphetamines that are currently legal (by prescription). Adderal and Ritalin for instance. Each of which is at least two amphetamines in one pill. Legalizing stuff like this could lead to a significant drop in the usage (ergo manufacture) of the bathtub crap that's killing folks and blowing up outhouses.
There are safer forms of methamphetamine than that currently being abused, as well. I mean I literally do not know the differences, but if METHamphetamine is the only one that'll do you then it could be manufactured pharmaceutically and regulated.
Like you and/or someone else has said, we could legalize a lot of shite before (and without) legalizing speed.
There are safer forms of methamphetamine than that currently being abused, as well. I mean I literally do not know the differences, but if METHamphetamine is the only one that'll do you then it could be manufactured pharmaceutically and regulated.
Like you and/or someone else has said, we could legalize a lot of shite before (and without) legalizing speed.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:31 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
At one point Eisenhower was smoking four packs a day. He later quit cold turkey.
I don't know if packs had 20 cigs back then or how fast they burned but that is a shite ton of smoking.
Pert certain they were 20 cigs/pack. They were unfiltered then also. Not sure that a Lucky Strike non-filter burns any faster than a Marlboro. If so not by much.
He had one of the hardest offices in the history of man. Not only trying to defeat Germany but trying to keep the Brits' panties out of wads 24/7. He probably needed every microgram of nicotine he was getting.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:31 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
To the OP, I'd say all drugs should be legal to use at the age of 21. If someone wants to live their life as a needle junkie, they should be able to do so provided they aren't harming others and at no cost to the taxpayer in terms of rehab and shite. As far as government reach and regulation regarding this...well, that's where it would get tricky.
Portugal decriminalized because they had a huge problem with heroine. It halved their heroine use.
Other countries have set up clinics where the users can get clean needles and medicinal grade heroine. This has led to people seeking treatment, being able to hold jobs, less disease spread, less crime.
LINK
ETA: It wasn't Portugal that I remembered had clinics, it was Switzerland. But the results are just as promising. More European countries are looking to adopt this platform as it appears the data is all beneficial. Canada is also testing the waters.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:38 pm to the808bass
There isn't a logically consistent argument for drugs being illegal. They all require the person making them to violate logic they use in virtually every other aspect of their lives.
It's a classic example of arguments made simply because they have always been made. After a while, people just stop thinking critically about it.
It's a classic example of arguments made simply because they have always been made. After a while, people just stop thinking critically about it.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:41 pm to the808bass
quote:
Reread the link.
No, it's from 1999. Much more data has been introduced from a much larger sample size.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:46 pm to AUbagman
That's one data point.
There's a lot of other data points in Portugal.
There's a lot of other data points in Portugal.
quote:
"the consumption of drugs in Portugal increased by 4.2% - the percentage of people who have experimented with drugs at least once in their lifetime increased from 7.8% in 2001 to 12% in 2007 (IDT-Institute for Drugs and Drug Addiction Portuguese, 2008).
quote:
While rates of use of cocaine and amphetamine doubled in Portugal, seizures of cocaine have increased sevenfold between 2001 and 2006, the sixth highest in the world (WDR-World Drug Report, 2009).
quote:
In Portugal, since decriminalization has been implemented, the number of homicides related to drugs has increased 40%. "It was the only European country with a significant increase in (drug-related) murders between 2001 and 2006" (WDR, 2009).
quote:
Portugal remains the country with the highest increase of AIDS as a result of injecting drugs (85 new cases per million residents in 2005, when the majority of countries do not surpass 5 cases per million). Portugal is the only country that recorded a recent increase, with 36 new cases estimated per million in 2005 when in 2004 only 30 were registered" (European Observatory for Drugs and Drug Addiction 2007).
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:47 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
There isn't a logically consistent argument for drugs being illegal.
I don't care if people want drugs to be legal. Legalize em. I just don't care for people lying about the result of that change in policies and laws.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:47 pm to AUbagman
You're an idiot.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:49 pm to 870Hog
No crack
No meth
No heroin, but still prescribed opiates
Everything else is okay
No meth
No heroin, but still prescribed opiates
Everything else is okay
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:52 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
There isn't a logically consistent argument for drugs being illegal. They all require the person making them to violate logic they use in virtually every other aspect of their lives.
It's a classic example of arguments made simply because they have always been made. After a while, people just stop thinking critically about it.
Great points. Much truth.
It's almost like there's some secret in Washington. Like they know some terrible truth about marijuana that no one else can measure. I remember my army recruiter instructing me to never admit I had ever smoked it to anyone else in the Army. He acted like I'd admitted to having shot Reagan or something.
One argument in Congress in 1932 was that it made white people act like black people. Whatever that meant. Today's government doesn't seem to mind black people, so we can scratch that detriment from the list.
I will say this: I used to be hippie. And I used to smoke a fair amount of pot. Now I'm pretty conservative. I smoke a little pot about every 9 months and for those 2 to 4 hours I'm a hippie, again. Love, peace, harmony. Yeah.
It's more accurate to say that when high I just don't want to give a shite.
Do they think the whole nation will stay so stoned and apathetic that no one will turn off the music, get off the couch, and go to work?
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:57 pm to the808bass
quote:
I just don't care for people lying about the result of that change in policies and laws.
You have to do a lot more than just legalize it to produce significant change. You have to regulate it like we do tobacco and (to a lesser degree) alcohol.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 10:59 pm to the808bass
quote:
the consumption of drugs in Portugal increased by 4.2% - the percentage of people who have experimented with drugs at least once in their lifetime increased from 7.8% in 2001 to 12% in 2007
Could there not be a plethora of other reasons behind that trend than strictly decriminalization? Drug use has increased in the U.S. with some of the most archaic drug laws in the world.
quote:
While rates of use of cocaine and amphetamine doubled in Portugal
Amphetamines are legal with a prescription, not to mention they are handed out like candy on U.S. college campuses . I don't know the reason for the increase in cocaine use, it'd be interesting to find out the cause. Regardless, it's not as addictive nor as deadly as alcohol, so when used in moderation as a party drug, I see no reason to fret over the increase. When cocaine related deaths start compounding, sure, the model should be reorganized.
quote:
In Portugal, since decriminalization has been implemented, the number of homicides related to drugs has increased 40%.
I'd venture to say it doesn't touch the homicide drug related deaths comparative to the U.S. Granted it's common sense that operating in a black market is more dangerous, hence the U.S. would be higher. This stat doesn't add up, and I'm interested to see new statistics on their homicide rate.
quote:
Portugal remains the country with the highest increase of AIDS as a result of injecting drugs
It's disappointing they aren't using the clinics like other European countries are testing. It has actually saved them money in the long term.
With all that said, these are base models. Nothing should be looked at as an absolute, but we know for a fact there is a better model than what the U.S. has adopted. Negative data points aside, the positive empirical data is overwhelming for decriminalization. To state otherwise is being willfully obtuse.
This post was edited on 3/10/15 at 11:06 pm
Posted on 3/10/15 at 11:04 pm to derSturm37
Marijuana is different from "hardcore" drugs in that it is illegal purely due to the "reefer madness" baby boomer generation who were brainwashed as kids/young adults to believe it was an intrinsic evil. As soon as the boomers have largely died off and the policy makers are almost exclusively children of the mid-70s and on, marijuana restrictions will be laughed off the books with the quickness.
The health dangers of other drugs are in fact very real, no doubt. The problem is that we don't use that logic for anything else. Tobacco, alcohol, fast food, etc. These kill exponentially more people every year than cocaine and heroine.
The health dangers of other drugs are in fact very real, no doubt. The problem is that we don't use that logic for anything else. Tobacco, alcohol, fast food, etc. These kill exponentially more people every year than cocaine and heroine.
Posted on 3/10/15 at 11:06 pm to derSturm37
quote:
I don't think that legalizing methamphetamine as it's currently known would be wise. As others have pointed out there are other amphetamines that are currently legal (by prescription). Adderal and Ritalin for instance. Each of which is at least two amphetamines in one pill. Legalizing stuff like this could lead to a significant drop in the usage
With safer, legal alternatives available people will stop using dangerous ingredients cooked up in some trailer washtub.
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