re: The myth of "jobs Americans won't do"

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Don't blame everyone that hires cheap labor we are not all driven by greed. We have guys that have been with us for 20 plus years if we didn't pay a living wage do you think they'd still be there. You have to start at the bottom and earn your way up but it can be done.

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Alright, if an American Kid, got a job there, proved that he grasps measurements, how to square forms,get everything level,properly use wire and rebar..use turnbuckles form walls etc... what could he expect hourly?

I mean starting, you see, I was earning $14.00 per hour, doing that job in the late 80s,less than 1 year experience,but soon got a job in a metal shop earning a bit more, so I moved on.

Today, a kid could never expect that, things are going backwards,what Smart American Kid would want it?

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believe that if you are a business owner willing to pay a market wage instead of leveraging cheaper labor, there will always be a citizen willing to take on that job.

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I used to think like you, then I attended a church with 4 men who combined have almost 10,000,000 tomato plants. They have to have hispanics, because they just get it done. Mericans....nope.

Picking Tomatoes.

It pays $2.00/box. The average hispanic makes $150-$200 per day.

Because of the labor laws in Alabama a few years ago . They went and hired young men, mostly black, who were either homeless or in centers. To a man, they averaged.$12 a day. American: 6 boxes. Hispanic: 75-100 boxes. The men were destitute, and had no other job potentially lined up. Couldn't get motivated to pick tomato. People in the major cities have no concept of food production.

Trying to force Americans to work then would create more issues.
I couldn't do it, my back, shoulder, hip, knees, etc...Would all lock up.

There are easy ways to fix this. That discussion refuses to be heard.

Generally speaking, many contractors are really bad. Every time I hire them, they charge exorbitant prices for literally nothing.

Hired a plumber to unclog a drain. He said that their base fee was $300. I said, "What if you get it done in 15 minutes?" Still, $300, he said.

I asked if that covered any additional costs? He said no. Anything additional would be added. So, why am I paying $300, I asked. He said, "Well, that guarantees that I am not here all day charging by the hour while sitting in my truck doing nothing."

He said that was the going rate because his boss sits on the computer all day researching what the going rate is.

I said, "no." And, this was a reputable, local, American company with American workers.


I have had many similar experiences with "American" workers.

I had an American and Mexican crew build our deck, and they both did equal hard work. When I had the deck painted, it was all latino and they did excellent work. Fast and pretty cheap too.

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lived very comfortably my first few years out of college (2006-2009) on 35-40k salary with a family. when I got my first raise with a job change 52k around 2009 I didn't know what do do with all the money.

You probably don't live very conservatively. Not that it's a bad thing, I wouldn't either if I didn't have a family. I make 3x my first salary now and I think the only major difference is that I'm able to save more. We eat out about the same, I still shop the clearance rack at every store I go to, and still cut my own grass. now the kids obviously cost more with bigger appetites as we get closer to teenagers, club soccer, clothes, etc.

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I graduated college in 2010 and immediately got a job making about $48k. Just got promoted and am now making about $55k. I also referee high school soccer, so that brings in an extra $3k or so. Since I graduated, I have bought and paid off a $20k vehicle and have bought a house. My sister is living with me and is paying $300/month in rent. I still live pretty conservatively. I rarely buy clothes, I don't eat that much, etc. I have about $35k in savings right now. I live pretty comfortably, but I'm not at the level I want to be.

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If you can find someone to do the job for just as good or better for cheaper, then I say, "Go for it." That's just good business.

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Yep, facts are due to several factors Mexicans are generally better low wage workers than Americans are. If I'm a business owner, I want the cheapest most effective labor I can find

But then again I'm an evil republican so what do I know

Buying a new muscle car every year is not a "decent lifestyle". That is a luxury. I agree that you should be able to make a decent living as a normal person. But I think our definitions of "decent" are far off.

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there seems to be more and more of a dichotomy between really good jobs that only the elite talents can get and perform and really shitty ones that don't pay enough to live on.

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Again, having enough to live on does not translate to "can afford a new muscle car every year".

Just because we don't live in a utopian society that enables people who lack skill to earn high wages does not mean our economy is doomed to fail.

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Americans did these jobs before, at a realistic living wage, and would still do them at a realistic living wage.

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Its this. I was explaining this to an ultra conservative the other day. You want to allow corporations to ship all of these manufacturing jobs over seas. You want to bring in immigration to cheapin labor. You want to send every one to college so the degree become saturated and nearly meaningless. You want to allow the Walmarts of the world to bring in cheap China goods built in nearly slave labor type factories with barely no work safety and environmental concerns. So the goods are so cheap no Americans can compete. Then after all this you are surprised there are so many unemployed needing welfare. You get what you create.

There are things you can do. For one thing we arent operating in capitalism. We are operating under crony capitalism. We can recognize China for what it is and heavily tax goods from there. But that will never happen. Because there are very rich people with puppets in government. These people make lots of money by owning factories in china. Making money off of this slave labor and poor environmental standards. They live in the USA and also find ways to not pay their proper taxes. And they are protected by party. Or we can accept the way things are. And say this is pretty good for America. But realize that we will have to pay a lot of welfare to those who are forced out of skilled labor jobs due to the factories over seas, non tariffs, and cheap influx of immigration. You cant have your cake and eat too. Those who speak from both sides of their mouth can only hold jobs in media and politics. Places where speeches mean more than action.

To see the order you must recognize the wheel of the process.