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Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:23 pm to auggie
I don't know where you're getting your numbers but they are off for the region I live and work in.
Eta I used starting pay numbers, if you prove yourself you make more.
Eta I used starting pay numbers, if you prove yourself you make more.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:40 pm to Agforlife
I use numbers ,according to what basic things cost me.
I figure I can have a reasonable, comfortable life right now @ 1,000 per week, if I am a careful guy and don't overextend my limits,and would still expect to be off 2 days per week.
Tell me that times have changed, and I tell you: This is exactly what this thread is about, and exactly how it happened.
I figure I can have a reasonable, comfortable life right now @ 1,000 per week, if I am a careful guy and don't overextend my limits,and would still expect to be off 2 days per week.
Tell me that times have changed, and I tell you: This is exactly what this thread is about, and exactly how it happened.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:44 pm to auggie
Oh I see you're part of the problem. I bet your definition of reasonable and comfortable are way different than what is truly reasonable and comfortable.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:55 pm to auggie
quote:
I figure I can have a reasonable, comfortable life right now @ 1,000 per week, if I am a careful guy and don't overextend my limits,and would still expect to be off 2 days per week.
Pre or post taxes?
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 10:58 pm to Agforlife
quote:
I bet your definition of reasonable and comfortable are way different than what is truly reasonable and comfortable.
Seriously? 1,000 bucks per week? That's unreasonable?
Let's look at how the banks interprets your finances, all of your monthly bills should add up to less than 25% of your monthly income, rent or mortgage, insurance, utilities, transportation,clothing,food.
Ok, tell me a reasonable living wage to a family man.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:03 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Pre or post taxes?
If it is 40 hours per week, that would be pretax, I would have weekends to make some extra,it's not a great life, but could make it at that,and maybe save 50 each week.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:04 pm to auggie
I definitely wouldn't consider $52k for a family to be living comfortably, especially pre-taxes.
Hell, I make just a little over that pre-taxes and I don't have a family. I am fine on my own, but I would not be living comfortably if I had any kids.
Hell, I make just a little over that pre-taxes and I don't have a family. I am fine on my own, but I would not be living comfortably if I had any kids.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:15 pm to pvilleguru
Right, but there are some guys here, that expect experienced, Skilled American Craftsmen, for less than 1/2 of that.
They don't understand that in the future,if you dwindle the middle class, your work will become less ans less. Killing The Golden Goose.
They don't understand that in the future,if you dwindle the middle class, your work will become less ans less. Killing The Golden Goose.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:18 pm to auggie
Or you could act responsibly and not have kids when you can't financially support them.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:20 pm to auggie
quote:
Right, but there are some guys here, that expect experienced, Skilled American Craftsmen, for less than 1/2 of that
Who is expecting this?
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:22 pm to pvilleguru
Oh, the numbers I quoted are for just a single guy,living alone, if you have a family, you need much more money.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:23 pm to auggie
When you said living wage for a family man, it kind of implied something else.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:27 pm to pvilleguru
You keep trying to make us the bad guy but you are failing to see it's not us. We pay better than the going rate for our people (tthat rate varies Btw depending on where you live) what do you want from us, to pay more because someone wants a bigger house, ok no problem and when we close the doors because we can't cover operating costs where will those people be? I'll tell you out of work and not able to pay for that house which they will lose and then not be able to buy another because of the foreclosure,and living on government assistance because they will then feel that they are to good to work for the prevailing wage
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:31 pm to auggie
quote:
Americans did these jobs before, at a realistic living wage, and would still do them at a realistic living wage.
I'd say a third the people between the ages of 19-40 are unemployable for any meaningful position.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:32 pm to pvilleguru
I did say that earlier in the thread,but didn't give specific numbers then, I only posted about living wage. I feel that for a basic family guy,a 60,000.00 salary would be the minimum.
The thread was about Americans won't do certain jobs. I am just saying, you can hire quality Americans, but not for immigrant wages.
Immigrants are going to send their money home, and go back there as soon as they can,so go ahead and kill the middle class,who have basically always been the skilled American craftsmen and such..you are killing future work at the same time.
Go ahead, keep doing it.
The thread was about Americans won't do certain jobs. I am just saying, you can hire quality Americans, but not for immigrant wages.
Immigrants are going to send their money home, and go back there as soon as they can,so go ahead and kill the middle class,who have basically always been the skilled American craftsmen and such..you are killing future work at the same time.
Go ahead, keep doing it.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 11:43 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:33 pm to auggie
Auggie I'm taking my argument to absurd extremes to make my point but I'm hoping you get that
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:40 pm to Agforlife
The reason why college graduates are making so little is because there are so many. The reason why there are so many is because they are not able to make a living doing vocational work. The reason why they are not able to make a living doing vocational work is because of cheap labor.
You may not be the bad guy, but the 30 years or so that I've seen of cheap labor infiltration has ruined the market for Americans.
My dad came out of college in the early 80's and had an opportunity to go to an NFL training camp. Instead, his dad bought him landscaping equipment to start his own biz. He was making well over what the base NFL pay was at the time. Five years later he had to close up shop cause he couldn't feed his family and compete with cheap laborers.
You may not be the bad guy, but the 30 years or so that I've seen of cheap labor infiltration has ruined the market for Americans.
My dad came out of college in the early 80's and had an opportunity to go to an NFL training camp. Instead, his dad bought him landscaping equipment to start his own biz. He was making well over what the base NFL pay was at the time. Five years later he had to close up shop cause he couldn't feed his family and compete with cheap laborers.
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:51 pm to Masterag
quote:
The reason why college graduates are making so little is because there are so many. The reason why there are so many is because they are not able to make a living doing vocational work. The reason why they are not able to make a living doing vocational work is because of cheap labor.
You may not be the bad guy, but the 30 years or so that I've seen of cheap labor infiltration has ruined the market for Americans.
My dad came out of college in the early 80's and had an opportunity to go to an NFL training camp. Instead, his dad bought him landscaping equipment to start his own biz. He was making well over what the base NFL pay was at the time. Five years later he had to close up shop cause he couldn't feed his family and compete with cheap laborers.
I'm sorry he lost his business but look at all the rest of what is going on in the world that uses labor, the cost of fuel, materials, and the thousands of little things required to build even a small simple project have skyrocketed but you still have to be low bidder to get the work. Yeah I hear people holler take less profit, well we already do that if we take any less we can't operate that is one of the largest factors keeping wages down. At the risk of sounding like a left wing liberal commie it's corporate america's profit over people philosophy that is the root of all of it.
There are so many college grads you say and that's why they make so little money, here's a thought why don't we quit pushing degrees in fields where there is no work and start pushing vocational schools to replace the dwindling skilled labor force and force corporations to quit sending manufacturing jobs overseas (wwhich started because labor wages got out of hand mostly due to unions but that's another thresd) and keep them here.
This post was edited on 5/10/15 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 5/10/15 at 11:52 pm to Agforlife
quote:
Auggie I'm taking my argument to absurd extremes to make my point but I'm hoping you get that
Well, I am sorry if I didn't catch the sarcasm.. I know too many who subscribe to this business practice, and don't see that it leads to a bad future.
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