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re: The Gaza land invasion (Day 46) ...
Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:32 am to Duke
Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:32 am to Duke
oh I agree, just they have some more leeway at this point because of how weak we are on the foreign stage. They also know that no matter how much kerry and bama bitch they don't have the balls to cut off the funds. If the dems tried to cut off funds to Israel they would lose votes, money and the media.
FWIW Im glad we are starting to become averse to involving ourselves in foreign conflicts. However, we need to regain our position on the world stage. The problem is trying to do that without being war mongering.
FWIW Im glad we are starting to become averse to involving ourselves in foreign conflicts. However, we need to regain our position on the world stage. The problem is trying to do that without being war mongering.
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Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:36 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
However, we need to regain our position on the world stage. The problem is trying to do that without being war mongering.
Hell of a question to answer. We like to throw our economic weight around, but that only goes so far. The EU needs to back us up to really leave bad actors twisting in the wind. The EU, who makes our Congress look efficient and effective by comparison.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:40 am to Duke
It is a tough game to play and its way to late for bama or his people to come off as strong. He is basically chamberlain at this point.
Maybe we could fabricate an incident with north korea and smash them into the ground. The issue with them would be china might get upset if we destroy their toy.
So we might need to look to Africa and let a dictator get out of line after we tell him not to do it and then just go over and smash them. Then we look like we mean what we say.
Maybe we could fabricate an incident with north korea and smash them into the ground. The issue with them would be china might get upset if we destroy their toy.
So we might need to look to Africa and let a dictator get out of line after we tell him not to do it and then just go over and smash them. Then we look like we mean what we say.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:48 am to heartbreakTiger
Obama wouldn't have this problem if he wasn't so focused on tough talk with Syria. Unless you are actually willing to do some dirty work, don't start drawing red lines. It neutered the usefulness of the threat in the future. He's seemed to figure out the best policy is to sit back and throw some sanctions here and some tough talk there.
His Syria bluff got called and it lost him the firm ground in international affairs.
His Syria bluff got called and it lost him the firm ground in international affairs.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 8:53 am to Duke
good point, the Syria bluff really messed him up on the world stage. Id argue he was extremely weak before then but that showed that he wont back shite up. It was a pretty stupid bluff to take with how unpopular war in the middle east has become over here. Then you have the issue that Israel and Russia both have extremely strong leaders and they are running wild at this point. However, unlike chamberlain this weakness wont result in some great war. It might suck for some smaller countries that could get swallowed up by aggressive ones but i don't see any major powers duking it out.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 9:01 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
Id argue he was extremely weak before then but that showed that he wont back shite up.
Well he is who he is. His position wouldn't look nearly this weak without Syria imo. Our foreign policy strength lies with the perception. Obama wasted a lot of that capital.
quote:
It was a pretty stupid bluff to take with how unpopular war in the middle east has become over here. Then you have the issue that Israel and Russia both have extremely strong leaders and they are running wild at this point.
Considering Syria has Russian backing, it was incredibly foolish. They weren't rolling over for tough talk. Putin doesn't give a shite. No POTUS was going to have much sway but the Obama administration has to see that and pick the right fights.
To pivot back to Israel for a moment, I think the pressing questions involves Egypt. When will the Arabs there get pissy about the Arabs dying in Gaza? The government there seems to be mainlining anti-Isalmist sentament at the moment.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 9:56 am to Duke
Im not sure Egypt will care unless Israel takes down Hamas but keeps going further. Good for Egypt taking a stance against muslim extremist.
Posted on 7/30/14 at 9:59 am to heartbreakTiger
The Egyptian people might start getting pissy and they've been more than willing to protest. Lucky for Israel though, the crackdown has scared away the most likely voices to raise a stink.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 11:40 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
FWIW Im glad we are starting to become averse to involving ourselves in foreign conflicts. However, we need to regain our position on the world stage. The problem is trying to do that without being war mongering
The problem has always been that we try to be too surgical. Same problem Israel is having right now.
War is war. We should be going-in, hitting hard and fast and viciously, and then thumbing a nose at them and leaving them with a warning ... frick-up again and we'll be back.
We should use more missiles and bombs and less boots on the ground. Boots on the ground is where we get in trouble every time.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 12:40 pm to scrooster
LINK
Looks like the Saudis, Jordanians, and especially Egyptians are solidly in support of Israel. The moderate Sunnis have decided the Jews aren't as bad as the radical Sunnis.
The Egyptians aren't going to support Hamas any time soon. Keep in mind that Hamas is the Palestinian wing of the Muslim brotherhood, the group the Egyptians just threw out. The current Egyptians prez likely sees Hamas as a direct and valid threat to Egypt.
Looks like the Saudis, Jordanians, and especially Egyptians are solidly in support of Israel. The moderate Sunnis have decided the Jews aren't as bad as the radical Sunnis.
The Egyptians aren't going to support Hamas any time soon. Keep in mind that Hamas is the Palestinian wing of the Muslim brotherhood, the group the Egyptians just threw out. The current Egyptians prez likely sees Hamas as a direct and valid threat to Egypt.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 12:46 pm to cokebottleag
Those three countries are the most concerned with ISIS as well.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 12:56 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Definitely. There are 3 factions solidifying in the Middle East right now: moderate Sunni (Jordan, UAE, Saudis, Eygpt) extremist Sunni (ISIS), and Iran's faction (Hamas, Assad, Iran, Shia Iraq, Qatar, Turkey).
The question has been who is going to bite the bullet and ally with Israel. It looks like the "moderate" Sunnis have decided to buddy up.
Edited faction actors.
The question has been who is going to bite the bullet and ally with Israel. It looks like the "moderate" Sunnis have decided to buddy up.
Edited faction actors.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 12:56 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
LINK
Looks like the Saudis, Jordanians, and especially Egyptians are solidly in support of Israel. The moderate Sunnis have decided the Jews aren't as bad as the radical Sunnis.
The Egyptians aren't going to support Hamas any time soon. Keep in mind that Hamas is the Palestinian wing of the Muslim brotherhood, the group the Egyptians just threw out. The current Egyptians prez likely sees Hamas as a direct and valid threat to Egypt.
Yep ... everyone is for Israel except the Palestinians, Hollywood and the American MSM.
What does that tell us?
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:02 pm to scrooster
The West bank doesn't even support Hamas/Gaza. There is no rebellion in the West Bank, and Fatah (while calling for a cease fire and publicly condemning Israels actions) have done zippo to assist Hamas or start their own war.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:17 pm to scrooster
quote:
Yep ... everyone is for Israel except the Palestinians, Hollywood and the American MSM.
Do you really believe that? There's very little support from the global community -- and most countries have kept a neutral tone in calling for an end to the violence.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:23 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
There are some new organizations like the NY Times that have been universally critical of Israel the past month. The rumor is though that Hamas is threatening reporters imbedded in Gaza with death if they do not report the Hamas propaganda.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:25 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Countries that support Israel's stance and/or condemned Hamas rocket attacks. (Blue)
Countries that condemned and/or expressed concern about Israel's actions. (Lightish Red)
Countries that condemned and/or expressed concern about the actions of both sides. (Light Green)
Although this map is a little disputed, the sources almost never switch to blue and could be considered, at the very least, to be green.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:54 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Who does Israel expect to take over if they root Hamas out/after that necessary occupation if you take out Hamas? I suspect what results is something more like ISIS.
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 8/1/14 at 1:59 pm to Duke
Hamas is much better than what ISIS is turning into. They look to be a monster in the next few years, if America doesn't step in or the Middle East doesn't take control.
Posted on 8/1/14 at 2:24 pm to scrooster
quote:
We should use more missiles and bombs and less boots on the ground
The problem with that, missiles and bombs won't do all that much. An example is our drone strikes in Pakistan...same thing, poor result. Kill a few but other than that...
This post was edited on 8/1/14 at 2:27 pm
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