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re: Some help needed(christian help)
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:15 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:15 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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And by the way, it looks like the ONLY one here getting chastised is me
Probably because your opinion is the only one in this thread that would limit what someone could do to share their belief.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 1:17 pm
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Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:22 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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Please put the poor plant back in the pot.
Just fyi, my plant post was a reference to a Tim Duncan commercial wherein he got so "worked up" he calmly picked up a potted plant and gently set it on its side
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I would NEVER insinuate that God would ever be limited by my personal tastes.
That is exactly what any reasonable person would infer from your posts. If that's not what you mean, you need to explain your position better.
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You are either greatly overreaching to prove your point, or you are blatantly trying a weak attempt at character assassination.
I have no interest in assassinating your character. THAT is a reach
I hardly even recognize your username. quote:
You have your opinion, and that's great. Congratulations. I have mine too, and should be able to voice that in respectful dialogue.
I'm not dissing you. Calm yourself.
I really don't care what kind of music you like or not. I like prettyich anything and everything, both Christian and secular, so it's no personal problem on my end.
What I take issue with is the fact that you keep saying that the type of music obfuscates a Christian message. That's simply not true.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:52 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Well, at any rate I've voiced my conviction on this topic and so have you. This debate is a hot topic nowadays and I know I'm not on the mainstream side of it, but the last thing I want is for this debate to turn into two Christians with differing views pointing fingers at each other. That is decidedly not a Christian thing to do, and while I do not apologize for stating my conviction on this subject, I do apologize for anything I've said that would make you think I'm subjugating yours. We seem to be, after all, on the same team here. We just wear our jerseys a little different.
...and I'm glad both you and Tim are taking good care of your plants. Cheers.
...and I'm glad both you and Tim are taking good care of your plants. Cheers.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:00 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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the last thing I want is for this debate to turn into two Christians with differing views pointing fingers at each other. That is decidedly not a Christian thing to do
Debatable, considering that's how we got so many differing sects of Christianity to begin with
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This debate is a hot topic nowadays and I know I'm not on the mainstream side of it
I don't care if you're "mainstream" or against the grain, tbh. That's beside the point. I've been asking you to explain the reasoning for your position, and you've lapsed into platitudes instead. I don't think you're subjugating my opinion, just trying to get you to buttress yours. You've failed me in that regard.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:20 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Um...read back. I've explained very clearly my pov in detail, and why. If you can't or won't accept it, then I don't know what else to tell you. What I do know is that it looks like you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing now, and I'm not gonna do that. Sorry to "fail" you.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:24 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
How does the type of Christian music hinder the message? Give me an example. This is your stated POV, but you haven't explained how that would happen.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:33 pm to TbirdSpur2010
If the music itself is so loud, overbearing, or intrusive that someone can't understand with clarity the words, meaning, or spirituality behind it.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:38 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
Here's an example:. My kids who are in their teens went to a Skillet concert a year ago. They couldn't tell you what 3/4 of the songs were even about. They did have a good time dancing around to the cool beats, though. Same thing happened to our youth group when they went to S.O.A.R. For the last few years. They just loved the beats, but didn't know what the songs were saying.
This refers back to my earlier post of spirituality vs entertainment. Entertainment is fine, but if you are looking for more than that (I.E. Spiritual value and conviction in a song), then secular format is not the optimal one. That is why I said in the earlier post that is why I don't consider those formats as Christian music. Again, my personal conviction, and I feel it has a lot of merit.
This refers back to my earlier post of spirituality vs entertainment. Entertainment is fine, but if you are looking for more than that (I.E. Spiritual value and conviction in a song), then secular format is not the optimal one. That is why I said in the earlier post that is why I don't consider those formats as Christian music. Again, my personal conviction, and I feel it has a lot of merit.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:47 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
"Overbearing" and "intrusive" are highly subjective descriptors. Not at all inhibitors to understanding a message if one is accustomed to said style of music.
As for loudness, Psalms exhorts us to praise him with a LOUD noise, so you're just gonna have to put in your earplugs and DWI when it gets hype
Again, this really comes down to personal taste: if you're not one to favor secular rap music, chances are you'll not grasp the message of Christian rap. Same goes for other genres. Just because its a Christian artist doesn't mean it will minister to everyone across the board. There's nothing wrong with that--it just means that that particular style of ministry isn't for you or those who favor your musical tastes.
As for loudness, Psalms exhorts us to praise him with a LOUD noise, so you're just gonna have to put in your earplugs and DWI when it gets hype
Again, this really comes down to personal taste: if you're not one to favor secular rap music, chances are you'll not grasp the message of Christian rap. Same goes for other genres. Just because its a Christian artist doesn't mean it will minister to everyone across the board. There's nothing wrong with that--it just means that that particular style of ministry isn't for you or those who favor your musical tastes.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 2:56 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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My kids who are in their teens went to a Skillet concert a year ago. They couldn't tell you what 3/4 of the songs were even about. They did have a good time dancing around to the cool beats, though. Same thing happened to our youth group when they went to S.O.A.R. For the last few years. They just loved the beats, but didn't know what the songs were saying.
And that is wrong, because.....?
Lyrics are easily available. A cool beat is just that: a cool beat. Neither good nor bad. Much better for your teens to have been vibing to something with a positive message behind it than, say, death metal (news flash: most fans of that don't know the lyrics either
). quote:
This refers back to my earlier post of spirituality vs entertainment.
Those are not mutually exclusive things. Not in the slightest.
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if you are looking for more than that (I.E. Spiritual value and conviction in a song), then secular format is not the optimal one.
All Christian music is a derivative of secular. Even hymns. Bet your teens would have trouble sussing out the meanings of choruses in some very common hymns, too. Many traditional choirs in orthodox churches feature people singing in languages the parishoners rarely understand or in voices that are extremely difficult to follow. There's no "conviction" (although that's also subjective) there, necessarily, even though it's a (supposedly) non-secular format. Every Christian song doesn't have to be a convicting sermon.
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That is why I said in the earlier post that is why I don't consider those formats as Christian music. Again, my personal conviction, and I feel it has a lot of merit.
Regardless of the (unsurprising) amount of merit you feel your opinion has, those formats can and are Christian music, whether you like them or choose to listen to them or not. They're obviously not your cup of tea, but they are for many other Christians.
To God be the glory for it.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:05 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I understand your point. I do enjoy some clean rap and even metal sometimes for my personal entertainment. But when it comes to preaching, edifying, and magnifying the Word (which is by definition what these christian artists are trying to do), I believe it is to be done with a different dynamic: clearly, reverantly, and with an emphasis on the message. And I'm not saying to not have fun with it musically. I'm saying that there are boundaries. When the message trying to be conveyed is drowned out by the music, those boundaries are tested. The Bible says that we should speak his word with clarity, and that God is not the author of confusion.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:13 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I do agree with you that there are some songs with very little in the way of musicality to them that are hard to follow. Even some of the "newer" hymns have a good bit of grammar that we don't use any more. Our grasp of the English language has faded (or evolved, if you will) considerably over even the last 100-150 years.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:17 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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The Bible says that we should speak his word with clarity, and that God is not the author of confusion.
That's speaking. We're talmbout singing.
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when it comes to preaching, edifying, and magnifying the Word (which is by definition what these christian artists are trying to do), I believe it is to be done with a different dynamic: clearly, reverantly, and with an emphasis on the message.
This is your taste. Other Christians have different tastes.
You say to "have fun" with it musically, then take umbrage with the fun folks have with it. Every type of music isn't going to speak to everyone in the same way, Christian or not.
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When the message trying to be conveyed is drowned out by the music, those boundaries are tested.
YOUR boundaries. Not God's. Yours. Remember that. God can minister through any medium He chooses.
Not saying it's bad to have your own personal boundaries, but to go so far as to say the music types that fall outside of yours isn't Christian is highly presumptive.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:41 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
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The Bible says that we should speak his word with clarity, and that God is not the author of confusion.
I'd argue that there's quite a bit of confusion in the bible.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:54 pm to vuvuzela
I'm a pretty big fan of Faith +1. Great musical group.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:55 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:my church group had the same displeasure. I enjoy skillet very much and understood everything they said. Skillet is a very good Christian rock band with a good message.
Skillet
Posted on 6/2/16 at 3:56 pm to Volatile
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I'm a pretty big fan of Faith +1. Great musical group.
Southpark eh? Yeah they have made fun of Christian music; I vaguely remember someone telling me of an episode making fun of Christian music and one of the guys in the band looked a lot like Mac Powell from Third Day.
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