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re: Some help needed(christian help)
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:32 am to TbirdSpur2010
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:32 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
I think you're way off base. Our peculiarity as Christians is our faith in Christ's redeeming sacrifice, not just being different for the sake of being different. Christian versions of music always has and always will reflect the prevailing music tastes of the time. There is nothing inherently wrong about that. When you type something like this: quote: that so called "Christian" rap, rock, grunge, and metal sounds just like the stuff coming out of the bars and taverns and on the VMA's every year with those whack-jobs calling it music and art. So, I think many (if not most) of the "Christian" rockers and hip hoppers and head bangers are just trying to find a niche where they can be relevant and make money, or they are really disillusioned as to how God expects us to represent him to a lost and dying world. It really just shows that YOU don't care for mainstream music, but are spinning it to make it seem as if those who do are somehow less devout than yourself. You don't have to like every strain of Christian music--in fact, as many types of music genres as it spans today, you probably won't. But you have to step back and realize that that's a matter of personal taste, not a measure of one's faith. Someone who grew up listening to secular heavy metal and found Christ is going to find Christian metal speaks to them more readily than someone who grew up in the church with different tastes. Christian music IS a niche--relevance is something artists seek so that they can not only make money, but also continue producing more music that means much to them and the people to whom it ministers. quote: With Christian music, the purpose is the message. When the music overrides that message, it is tainted. We are supposed to praise the Lord with everything that has breath. Organs and cymbals were cited in that passage. What has breath today is digitized music/guitars/rapping/what have you. When there is a message behind the music, it is not "tainted," I'm sorry.
I only dream of being able to one day get Tbird this worked up.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 10:33 am
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Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:37 am to TbirdSpur2010
Laying it down
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:49 am to TbirdSpur2010
Well said T-bird. I am reminded of the Apostle Paul and how he said in 1 Corinthians chapter 9 how he became "all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some". Does this mean becoming like the world and participating in sin? Not at all. I think he meant that he sought common ground so he could better relate and evangelize. Music helps do that. Just Hogwarts two cents
Posted on 6/2/16 at 11:19 am to Hogwarts
I feel like if i listen to better music it will help me.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 11:59 am to Stacked
quote:
I only dream of being able to one day get Tbird this worked up.
I may or may not have knocked over a plant in my tirade
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:15 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I don't have anything against secular music. It has its place as long as it's not vulgar, degenerative, or immoral. And I'm DEFINATELY not trying to say I'm better than anyone. What I am saying is that I don't think the best way to witness to others is to try to look and sound like the same thing that is helping keep them chained down. And I reiterate my earlier post that if the music drowns the message - no matter what the genre - then it ceased to be a spiritual help, and simply becomes entertainment. And I think the op is looking for advice on music that has a Christian message, not just something to headbang to. I believe if people would think about what I'm saying instead of having a kneejerk reaction to me going against status quo, the Christians would understand my point and agree.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:22 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
An example of my point happened when I was a small child. I remember a preacher who used to go to bourbon street bars and witness to people. Well, it wasn't long until he became a drunk just like some of the people he wanted to help there. I feel like this has happened to a great extent to Christian music in America. Good intentions, but bad execution. You don't have to look or act like the world to share your faith. We are supposed to look and act like the one we are representing TO the world.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:24 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
I believe if people would think about what I'm saying instead of having a kneejerk reaction to me going against status quo, the Christians would understand my point and agree.
I thought about what you said and I still disagree 100%
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:26 pm to pvilleguru
That's your rightful opinion. I won't break any plants over it.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:29 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
What I am saying is that I don't think the best way to witness to others is to try to look and sound like the same thing that is helping keep them chained down.
You can't witness to them by singing Amazing Grace in church. You have to do something that would get them interested in the first place.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:30 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
We are supposed to look and act like the one we are representing TO the world.
Well said.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:32 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
I remember a preacher who used to go to bourbon street bars and witness to people. Well, it wasn't long until he became a drunk just like some of the people he wanted to help there.
Sounds like he had other problems.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:35 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
You have to do something that would get them interested in the first place.
The bible says the word of God is sharper than a two edged sword, able to cleave bone from marrow. It can stand and obtain interest on its own. Why would you want to drown that out with a powerchords solo? Music should complement the message, not override it.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:42 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Sounds like he had other problems.
He had the same problems we all have:. Sin-sickness. Just like you and I, he was flesh and was susceptible to temptation. I'm not trying to draw ire on him. That's not the point. The point is that if we wallow in the mud, even if our intentions are to stay clean, we are opening ourselves up to Satan and playing to our flesh. I know because ive been there. We all have as Christians. And BC we do fall, it's not a good idea to dance around the fire, tempting it to burn us.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:43 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
The bible says the word of God is sharper than a two edged sword, able to cleave bone from marrow. It can stand and obtain interest on its own.
If they aren't willing to listen to it, then it doesn't matter how sharp it is. If you walk into a bar and throw out some bible verses, no one is going to listen to you. Put a good message in with a good beat and some tasty licks and you might get some people to take notice.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:49 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Put a good message in with a good beat and some tasty licks and you might get some people to take notice.
I agree. As long as the message is clearly understood and is not hindered by the musicality (or lack thereof) in the song.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:54 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
I am saying is that I don't think the best way to witness to others is to try to look and sound like the same thing that is helping keep them chained down.
Music is a tool. An avenue. It is not chaining anyone down. It can be used to promote positive or negative. That's it.
quote:
if the music drowns the message - no matter what the genre - then it ceased to be a spiritual help, and simply becomes entertainment.
What "drowns out" the message for you vs. for someone else is highly subjective. A message that may be lost on you with one form of music can (and does) resonate with another. Again, you're allowing your personal druthers to dictate what is and is not worthy of being a vehicle for ministry. That's not wise. It's an extremely myopic view of how God can minister to people through the musical tools we have.
quote:
I think the op is looking for advice on music that has a Christian message, not just something to headbang to.
There is a myriad of "headbanging" music available that has a Christian message. That's what has been suggested.
quote:
I believe if people would think about what I'm saying instead of having a kneejerk reaction to me going against status quo, the Christians would understand my point and agree.
I have given your points much thought, not kneejerked against them. I simply reject your premise and vehemently disagree.
Has nothing to do with you going against the status quo. If certain genres of Christian music don't minister to you, that's perfectly fine. But don't use your personal tastes to limit how God can speak to people and chastise other believers for being so ministered to.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:56 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
As long as the message is clearly understood
I don't think it even has to be clearly understood, or at least not straight up bible verses, overuse of Jesus and God, etc. That could also turn people away.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:00 pm to sumtimeitbeslikedat
quote:
As long as the message is clearly understood and is not hindered by the musicality (or lack thereof) in the song.
In your eyes, how would a message be "hindered by musicality"? You've said this often, but not really said how it would occur other than you having an aversion to "head banging" (whatever that's supposed to mean
).Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:09 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
But don't use your personal tastes to limit how God can speak to people and chastise other believers for being so ministered to.
Please put the poor plant back in the pot. I would NEVER insinuate that God would ever be limited by my personal tastes. You are either greatly overreaching to prove your point, or you are blatantly trying a weak attempt at character assassination. And by the way, it looks like the ONLY one here getting chastised is me. You have your opinion, and that's great. Congratulations. I have mine too, and should be able to voice that in respectful dialogue.
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