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re: So you want 15$ an hour for working a register at McDonalds?

Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:34 am to
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:34 am to
quote:

Those jobs are meant for high school and college kids to use until they transfer to a higher payer job. They are not meant for people to work at for careers.



Maybe they were meant for those people, but the reality today is that the average age of a minimum wage earner is around 30. So while they may not have intended to work there as a career, it has turned into one due to a weak job market coupled with their low skills/education. I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor do I think it's a viable solution, but to find a viable solution we have to face the reality that these jobs aren't being solely filled by high school and college kids.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111508 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:34 am to
quote:

and make a very comfortable living.


If you're willing to work, you can do this more often than not here in the USA.
Posted by Agforlife
Somewhere in the Brazos Valley
Member since Nov 2012
20102 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:36 am to
The viable solution is to bring back the manufacturing jobs that are all farmed out overseas. I wish I knew how we could do this but unfortunately with our system of publicly held companies where profit is the only thing that matters we are fricked.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111508 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:43 am to
quote:

Maybe they were meant for those people, but the reality today is that the average age of a minimum wage earner is around 30. So while they may not have intended to work there as a career, it has turned into one due to a weak job market coupled with their low skills/education. I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor do I think it's a viable solution, but to find a viable solution we have to face the reality that these jobs aren't being solely filled by high school and college kids.


But only 1/4 of the benefit of a minimum wage increase to $10.10 would go to households with an income less than $20,000. A full 45% of the benefit of a minimum wage increase to $10.10 would go to households making over $40k per year. If you're trying to help the downtrodden, it's a horribly inefficient way of doing it.
LINK
This post was edited on 5/28/15 at 11:50 am
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34330 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 11:48 am to
quote:

Or we could just stop importing manufactured goods, but the unions fricked that all up.



I wouldn't blame that all on the unions. Sure they knocked the costs of our traditional manufacturing capability beyond what is globally competitive, but if that was the only problem then the factories would have moved to right-to-work states instead of internationally.

The bigger problem is the American consumer, all we care about is rock bottom prices at Wal-Mart instead of quality or products that give jobs to fellow Americans. Wal-Mart has tried again and again and they will be the first to tell you Americans won't pay more for American products. That is what undid our manufacturing base.

quote:

The viable solution is to bring back the manufacturing jobs that are all farmed out overseas. I wish I knew how we could do this but unfortunately with our system of publicly held companies where profit is the only thing that matters we are fricke


That is what I am saying, privately held companies won't do this for us. They will suck America dry, discard the husk, and then the executives and CEOs will just move to the Caymans to avoid the political instability that follows. A state run company can work for social good instead of profits, which includes giving everyone who can show up to work on time and piss clean in a cup a livable job no matter their skill level.
Posted by Nuts4LSU
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
25468 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

The other crazy option which you're missing is making yourself more valuable to an employer or potential employer.


I'm not missing it, it's just irrelevant. If he makes himself more valuable and gets a better job (and somehow finds a way to eat for the year or two that will take), then someone else will just slide into the job he has now, and then that person will have to eat. How will that person eat?
Posted by boogiewoogie1978
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2012
16968 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

The problem I have with the $15 an hour is that is the same wage entry college graduates make.


There is your problem.
Graduates should be making more.

College isn't for everyone. In the past you could get a good paying manufacturing job and live a comfortable life.
However, those are few are far between now.

It has been said that we replaced a manufacturing economy with a service one.
It makes sense to assume that some of those service jobs could replace the manufacturing jobs.

This can all be related to income inequality and the growing disparity between the rich and the poor.
The rich are not only holding the poor back but are also holding the middle class back by not paying them wages that have coincided with inflation.
This post was edited on 5/28/15 at 12:47 pm
Posted by Old Hellen Yeller
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9415 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:14 pm to
If those registers are anything like the self check outs at Walmart, we're not really that much better off. Old people, dumb people, difficult people will jam up the lines and there will have to be employees hired to assist. So you're back to square one.
Posted by Nuts4LSU
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
25468 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

Those jobs are meant for high school and college kids to use until they transfer to a higher payer job. They are not meant for people to work at for careers.


So, your answer to the question of how the cashier at McDonalds should eat is that he/she should live off of parents or someone else until they get a better job? Seriously, that's your solution?
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111508 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:21 pm to
You avoided the question I posed (as does everyone who proposes a "living wage").
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111508 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

So, your answer to the question of how the cashier at McDonalds should eat is that he/she should live off of parents or someone else until they get a better job? Seriously, that's your solution?


You may want to read the link I posted in this thread. I mean, I know you don't want to. But it would broaden your vision.
Posted by rantfan
new iberia la
Member since Nov 2012
14110 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

quote: So, your answer to the question of how the cashier at McDonalds should eat is that he/she should live off of parents or someone else until they get a better job? Seriously, that's your solution?


They work at McDonald's I'm sure they can eat
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34330 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

They work at McDonald's I'm sure they can eat



Actually it is against company policy for employees to eat the food. They can get a limited discount on food, but they still pay for it.

Unless you are advocating employee theft as a solution.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

The viable solution is to bring back the manufacturing jobs that are all farmed out overseas. I wish I knew how we could do this but unfortunately with our system of publicly held companies where profit is the only thing that matters we are fricked.



This is not the American companies fault, it is simply a reality of a global marketplace that has come about because of the economical transfer of data.

Let's say 2 companies, one American, and one Chinese, decided to sell a widget. Both companies make the widget in their own nation. The Chinese can manufacture the product for $5 dollars, the American for $10. The American company makes a better product, but consumers go for the Chinese made one because they really only care about the price, not the quality, for the most part. If they cared so much about quality, the Chinese product wouldn't sell.

The American company then can't compete. So they lobby the government to impose tarriffs on foreign made goods instead of review internal processes and improve costing; they want to keep the factory in the USA. So the government imposes import duties on the Chinese products of $5, and now both products are $10 on the shelf.

Well the Chinese don't like this, so they impose tariffs on the American products we export (because we do, more than you think). Now the same business (which sells thingamajigs to Chinese companies) has to pay $5 on all its exports. Well they can't afford this and compete with other companies from Brazil or France who are selling to the chinese, so they ask the government to subsidize them so they can keep the jobs in the USA. So now, the government pays the American company $5 for each thingamajig they make.

You start to see the web that has to be spun to combat the free market here. This goes on forever. We actually still impose large tariffs on sneakers in America, put in place decades ago to 'protect' American shoe manufacturing. Today, our government intervention has resulted in not only no sneakers being manufactured in the US due to the free market, but EVERY SHOE YOU BUY IS STILL TARIFFED. So the end result being not only do we not have the jobs, but we are still paying huge prices for items which should have gone down a long time ago.

The UK spent HUGE amounts of money and tears trying to be 'food independent' in the 1970s. The only result was soaring food prices for everyone. Once they let go and let the free market go to work, they ended up a lot better off economically.

We should let sectors die that need to die. We prop them up and end up with a lose-lose in the end.
Posted by MMB5DAP
Member since Jul 2013
1735 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

I'm not missing it, it's just irrelevant. If he makes himself more valuable and gets a better job (and somehow finds a way to eat for the year or two that will take), then someone else will just slide into the job he has now, and then that person will have to eat. How will that person eat?


There are 168 hours in a week. Assuming they are full time at McDs that leaves 128 hours. Lets assume 6 hours of sleep per day. That leaves 86 hours. Time to get a second job if you cant eat.

I did it during the summer when I was in college. Worked 6am-2pm at a golf course and 3-11 at a grocery store.

Next thing is, these broke people who "cant eat" have cable/internet/cell phone and most likely buy alcohol and other non-essentials. Stop living the champagne life on a beer salary.
Posted by boogiewoogie1978
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2012
16968 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

So the end result being not only do we not have the jobs, but we are still paying huge prices for items which should have gone down a long time ago.


This is why more jobs need to be created to replace the manufacturing jobs lost. That is the only way the middle class will survive.

If we keep shipping jobs overseas and making things cheaper then the purchasing power of the people losing those jobs diminish as well.
Corporations don't realize it yet, but maximizing profit at the cost of your customer base will eventually cause the market to collapse.
Posted by Dick Leverage
In The HizHouse
Member since Nov 2013
9000 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 1:16 pm to
Exactly. While in college at UGA in the early 90s, I worked as a line cook at Longhorn 30+ hours a week. Mainly nights and weekends. I did that for 4 years. I started at $8.25 an hour and by my last year I was making $16.50 per hour. Next closest guy, except the full time kitchen manager, was making around $10 an hour. I did that by busting my arse and working circles around the lazy and ignorant employees around me. Expediting the cooking line on Friday and Saturday nights. Leading and coaching my co-workers in efficiency and eliminating wasted movements in a rush. Digging us out of the weeds by bouncing station to station and communication. Staying on the guys when it was time to close and clean the kitchen so we could all get out of there and doing the work of two people. I kept demanding a raise every 6 months. "No problem, we can give you .50." No, I require a dollar. "Okay...we can do that but don't tell anyone because we don't do dollar raises." By my 4th year, when I went from $15.50 to $16.50, I convinced my GM to consider me as two employees and to cut the staff my one as they were dead weight anyway. He initially said "we just don't pay that kind of wage at Longhorn for a kitchen employee. My Regional manager will go ape shite when he finds out. The highest paid Longhorn cook at the Buckhead store only makes $16.00 and he has been there since they opened the store ten years ago. Hell, that is asst. manager pay scale." I told him "We are friends so I will just talk bluntly. I really don't care what Wayne(RM) thinks. I doubt that he got to be RM by being dumb. He knows the value I bring to this store. I carry this kitchen on my damn back. Tell him, if he ever asks, that you can't afford to lose me and you will justify it by getting rid of the next sorry arse that habitually calls in sick and not hire a replacement. Half of the staff here is dead weight anyway." He wisely made the smart decision and gave me the raise I demanded. When I left in 96, I was the highest paid LH cook in the company. Heck, I was called in to other higher volume stores(Buckhead, Roswell, etc.) on weekend nights and paid $20.00 an hour when they were short handed. I would be scheduled at the Athens store and my GM would call and say that the RM had called and asked him to send me to another store that night. My GM hated when that happened because it would impact his night but he did it to placate the RM.

Point of all this, and to your post, is exactly what you said. Make yourself valuable. Distinguish yourself from everyone else. Take pride in everything your job requires you to do. Do your job and do more. Go the extra mile....everyday. After I earned my degree and decided to leave Athens to get on with my life, they (RM and GM) wanted me to become a manager. I told them no thanks...it is not for me. "But you worked so hard here, and you communicate so well, you have great leadership skills, etc.. This seems Taylor made for you." I appreciated that confirmation. I really did but explained to them that I never intended to make a career out of that job. I believe in being the best....first in class....at any endeavor. It is an issue of pride.

Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 1:18 pm to
Hope you didn't pull a muscle in your shoulder patting yourself on the back there.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

This is why more jobs need to be created to replace the manufacturing jobs lost. That is the only way the middle class will survive.

If we keep shipping jobs overseas and making things cheaper then the purchasing power of the people losing those jobs diminish as well.
Corporations don't realize it yet, but maximizing profit at the cost of your customer base will eventually cause the market to collapse.


No, that's the old way of thinking. It will not cause the market to collapse, it will cause it to move. If you're a company you go where the market is. America is not even close to being the only major market anymore.

The American worker needs to adapt with the market; asking the market to adjust to the worker is stupid, and just causes the market to go somewhere else. American heavy industry is alive and dominant in several sectors (oilfield tools is one). Chinese offshore rigs are outfitted with American equipment. Why? Because our manufacturing is superior and our costs aren't exorbitant, and they can communicate with American engineers quickly and easily due to email, VOIP, and cheap airfare.

I've seen an oil rig built by a Chinese shipyard, for a Mexican company, outfitted with equipment assembled in Estonia, Finland, America, and Canada, that was originally manufactured in 60 different places before being shipped to the assembly factory, all coordinated with American management. The world has changed with the Internet. We are competing with every other country and we aren't at the bottom or the top of the wage/cost scale. All import/export tariffs do today is hurt American commerce in the long run.

American workers have to adapt to this new marketplace, because it isn't going away. If American unskilled labor is twice the price of Indian, then the American worker needs to show twice the value. If that isn't possible, then you need to find a career where you CAN do so.
Posted by Dick Leverage
In The HizHouse
Member since Nov 2013
9000 posts
Posted on 5/28/15 at 2:20 pm to
Come on Spleen. That wasn't a brag post. It was an example pertaining to the post I was responding to demonstrating exactly what he was saying. Just about every food service establishment has 2-3 kitchen guys/girls who carry the load.
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