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re: Ferguson, what's your opinion?
Posted on 8/21/14 at 9:32 pm to KSGamecock
Posted on 8/21/14 at 9:32 pm to KSGamecock
Justified shoot, imo.
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Posted on 8/21/14 at 9:37 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
It's not the cop's fault he was drunk and stupid -- and it's not his responsibility to put his life at risk because of it. If someone is physically larger than me and I have a firearm, I'm not going to give them the chance to take it and use it against me. Anyone can get a lucky punch, and before you know it you're paralyzed or take brain damage because a "good kid" stomped on you while you were unconscious. frick taking chances as a police officer, and I've seen way too many tasers not function to trust them to take someone down and not piss them off.
I also have several good friends who are cops.
For their sake, in a tough situation, I hope they do what's best for them.
Part of the problem here is that criminals are much more brazen than 30 years ago. There are folks that will shoot a cop without batting an eye.
This makes cops much more willing to pull the trigger. You don't know if that guy is a drunk dumbass, or a cop killing gang banger.
I get it, but it still sucks. It sucks even more that it's happening in an area I grew up in. My grandparents lived there, my parents owned a bar on West Florissant Ave. I don't think of a place where I used to live as a place where cops shoot people, and people riot.
Times change though, and there's a reason my family left. It wasn't great there in the '80's. I can only imagine what it's like now.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:13 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I'm annoyed by all the people saying the cop shot him and "left him for dead." What was Wilson supposed to do, drag Brown to the hospital?
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:15 pm to MrTide33
It's pretty standard to leave the body there until a higher up gets there or a medic of some kind declares the person dead.
But now it's come out that there isn't even an incident report for the shooting. Someone filed an FOIA for the report and the Ferguson PD told them there wasn't one. That seems really odd.
But now it's come out that there isn't even an incident report for the shooting. Someone filed an FOIA for the report and the Ferguson PD told them there wasn't one. That seems really odd.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:18 pm to The Spleen
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But now it's come out that there isn't even an incident report for the shooting
As someone who plans on being a journalist in some form, I don't trust anything coming out on either freaking side of this situation right now
CNN has been pretty stupid on the one side, and I just saw Hannity butch it for the pro-cop side.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:20 pm to The Spleen
quote:
It's pretty standard to leave the body there until a higher up gets there or a medic of some kind declares the person dead.
He was declared dead pretty quickly but the body wasn't removed for some time. It was a pretty chaotic scene in a matter of minutes, but I'd bet that FPD wishes they'd removed the body a little more quickly.
Eta: I believe the incident report would've been written by STL county PD as they were given the case almost immediately.
This post was edited on 8/21/14 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:30 pm to MrTide33
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I'm annoyed by all the people saying the cop shot him and "left him for dead." What was Wilson supposed to do, drag Brown to the hospital?
Yeah for sure.
Red vs. Blue Grif gives Sarge CPR for a bullet wound to the head.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:31 pm to the808bass
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I'd bet that FPD wishes they'd removed the body a little more quickly.
I would say that was one of the bigger frick ups of the whole situation and helped fuel some of the anger. Not saying rioting wouldn't have happened, but it would have been better to remove the body as quickly as possible. Rather than watching a bunch of other white men with badges walking past and around Brown several times.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:33 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
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I would say that was one of the bigger frick ups of the whole situation and helped fuel some of the anger. Not saying rioting wouldn't have happened, but it would have been better to remove the body as quickly as possible. Rather than watching a bunch of other white men with badges walking past and around Brown several times.
Can only do so much -- have to wait for the EMTs to check him, a superior, a detective since it's an active crime scene.
You can't just willy nilly move a body because it's discomforting. Procedure and protocol 'n' shite.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 10:57 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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Can only do so much -- have to wait for the EMTs to check him, a superior, a detective since it's an active crime scene.
So what about the active crime scene prevented them from moving the body for 4-5 hours? The police chief himself said he was "uncomfortable" with how long the body was there.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:10 pm to the808bass
"Jackson said he was 'uncomfortable' with the length of time Brown’s body lay in the open. But he added that the job of processing the crime scene was delayed by the sound of gunshots ringing out, although it was never determined where those shots came from."
Did you leave that out on purpose, or was it unintentional?
Did you leave that out on purpose, or was it unintentional?
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:13 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
So why is he uncomfortable with it? If it's perfectly justified, no reason to be uncomfortable. I alluded to the chaotic scene earlier ITT.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:17 pm to the808bass
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So why is he uncomfortable with it? If it's perfectly justified, no reason to be uncomfortable. I alluded to the chaotic scene earlier ITT.
Would you be content with someone who was comfortable having a body in the street for that long?
No one would want that, justified or not.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:35 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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Can only do so much -- have to wait for the EMTs to check him, a superior, a detective since it's an active crime scene.
You can't just willy nilly move a body because it's discomforting. Procedure and protocol 'n' shite.
I understand, but I feel they could have mitigated some of the visual fireworks. If I am wrong about that than so be it, just my opinion. I get that there are procedures for certain situations (i.e. Handcuffing a suspect no matter what, etc.).
I have family in law enforcement from Sheriff deputy to FBI agent. Most don't understand the training of law enforcement and can be misunderstood to be callous and cold. However, it is done to protect life, property, and evidence.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:41 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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crime scene was delayed by the sound of gunshots ringing out
Did not know this or see this before responding to you. Interesting and makes sense. Without being there from start to finish and only hearing witness accounts it sure makes it difficult to assess this situation in full.
However, with some of the facts coming out it sure is looking as if Brown played with fire and it cost him his life. More to come I am sure.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 11:44 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
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I understand, but I feel they could have mitigated some of the visual fireworks. If I am wrong about that than so be it, just my opinion. I get that there are procedures for certain situations (i.e. Handcuffing a suspect no matter what, etc.).
I'm also sympathetic to the idea (quite clearly as stated above) but the perceived malice from the very onset is what's getting me at this point.
Does anyone really believe they intentionally left him out there just for the frick of it?
That a cop killed him for no reason?
That a cop talked to him for no reason?
The belief alone sullies it for me.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 12:51 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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Does anyone really believe they intentionally left him out there just for the frick of it?
No.
quote:
That a cop killed him for no reason?
No. But I don't default to "every shooting by a cop is for a good reason" either.
quote:
That a cop talked to him for no reason?
If Officer Wilson was patrolling in Chesterfield and told a kid who was walking in a side street to get the frick off the street, well.... Nevermind. He wouldn't have done that in Chesterfield.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 1:02 am to the808bass
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If Officer Wilson was patrolling in Chesterfield and told a kid who was walking in a side street to get the frick off the street, well.... Nevermind. He wouldn't have done that in Chesterfield.
None of these guys understand how STL works.
You and I both know, if a white guy is walking down the middle of the street in Ferguson, dude gets a honk. That's it.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 1:03 am
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:17 am to Remote Controlled
quote:
You and I both know, if a white guy is walking down the middle of the street in Ferguson, dude gets a honk. That's it.
Betchya the white guy gets out of the way and doesn't think sockin' a cop in the eye and eating a bullet sandwich is a better idea.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 8:26 am to the808bass
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So what about the active crime scene prevented them from moving the body for 4-5 hours? The police chief himself said he was "uncomfortable" with how long the body was there.
That's just the way things work. As I've said earlier, I've been a volunteer firefigher/emt for over 15 years. Whenever I respond to a death in the field that involves violence, the first thing I do is text my wife that I'm going to be a while. That time is the only chance LE will have to correctly document the scene and collect evidence and you never know what might be important down the road. The position of the body, shell casings, skid marks, debris location, etc. Any one part of it could be critical. They just can't rush the job and do it right.
The longest I've waited is almost 7 hours. It was a police pursuit where a motorcycle going over 100 decided to go straight at a T intersection.* It was so long I asked a deputy friend of mine if the plan was to just let the buzzards take care of the body. Rigor mortis had set in by the time we helped the coroner load him. Even something as simple as a single vehicle accident's going to be a couple of hours on scene. With all the complicating issues occurring in Ferguson, I'm not a bit surprised it took as long as it did.
It is very uncomfortable for everyone with an ounce of empathy in their body to see someone's loved one lying dead on the ground for a long time. On our calls, we'll position apparatus and do anything else we can to protect the dignity of the deceased but there's just no other way. The interests of justice have to override those uncomfortable feelings.
*Interesting note about the motorcycle chase. There was a 'witness' claiming the officer hit the bike and forced it through the intersection. Thankfully for the officer, his car had a dash cam. The motorcycle had outrun him so badly, all you saw of the crash was a cloud of dust in the distance.
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