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By the numbers

Posted on 12/17/16 at 8:37 am
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 8:37 am
Slow day at work so I went and checked out some recruiting numbers. Looking at the top 10 teams this season I avg'd their past 3 classes to see if recruiting rankings does equal success.

Lets break em down
1. Bama 1
2. Clemson 12
3. OSU 4
4. Wash 31
5. Penn 19
6. Mich 21
7. OU 15
8. Wisc 35
9. USC 7
10. Colorado NR in top 50
** FSU 3 since they are brought up often.

So looks to me only 3 teams in the top 10 this season avg'd a top 10 recruiting class the past 3 years. Think of that next time you wanna complain about class rankings.

Wanna know who is in the top 10 for the most part the past 3 years? LSU,UGA and Tenn. How did they do this year? I'm not saying talent isnt needed to win, just saying look more at who we get instead of an overall number ranking.
This post was edited on 12/17/16 at 9:02 am
Posted by reel_gator8
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
11060 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 11:19 am to
quote:

dbuchanon


Sorry but your list flies in stark contrast to what Ive been reading on several message boards. Maybe you didnt know that our recruiting sucks? That our coaches suck? That the sky is falling? And by some accounts we will be lucky to be 7-5 in 2017? Also we are doomed?

Since Ive read it so often it must be true, amirite? You are trying to use logic on message board and everyone knows logic that is contrary to witch hunts, ropes, torch and pitchforks crowds is not well received and Im sure one of our smarter and more knowledgeable posters will be posting soon to correct you
Posted by slayerxing
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
11045 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 11:32 am to
You have to take in to account the recruiting rankings of the teams these top 10 teams have played. For example Washington out recruited every team they played this year except for USC. USC crushed them. Just an example. Your analysis is too narrow.
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 12:15 pm to
How bout Penn beating OSU and Mich taking them to OT?
Clemson vs FSU?

By recruiting alone those games shouldnt have been close. Another case where there is more to this game than straight up numbers put on a kids abilities.
Just like in the NFL, If you have a QB you'll be good more often than not. If Grier didnt fail his pee pee test we are a totally different team right now. Like someone said, His actions alone set this team back 2 yrs.
This post was edited on 12/17/16 at 12:18 pm
Posted by slayerxing
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
11045 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 12:34 pm to
For every anecdotal upset you give me I can show you 10 games where the team with better recruiting won as expected. Recruiting is only one variable obviously, as coaching, injuries, retention, etc all must be considered as well but recruiting is a big one.
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

Im sure one of our smarter and more knowledgeable posters will be posting soon to correct you





No torches and pitchforks, just shovels for digging up the goal posts that they are always moving.

Posted by UF
Florida
Member since Nov 2016
2696 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 2:46 pm to
I'm more concerned with how the team plays in the bowl game.

After that, as a matter of curiosity, I'd really like to find out what people think of the S&C program. Does UF have another Tuten or is he more like Dillman the screaming weirdo?
Posted by reel_gator8
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
11060 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 4:24 pm to
Lets add another example to recruiting vs coaching AND a teams determination. How bout LSU? On paper they have out recruited a lot of the SEC...really about 13 teams including the Gators...so why didnt they curb stomp us?

frick recruiting ratings....its gotten out of hand now for some many fan bases...not just us...its fools gold. I dont wanna win recruiting wars....I wanna win games and I think Mac knows how to coach. The sky is falling crowd is just impatient and really imo dont know the real facts behind the scenes of what our coaches do. The same crap over and over..fire this coach fire that coach ad nauseam.
Posted by slayerxing
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
11045 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 4:35 pm to
There are a lot of factors that influence a college football team's success.

Recruiting is one of those things. Probably the biggest thing.

I just looked at the PAC 12 as an example. The top 6 teams by win percentage over the past 3 years in the conference have an average 3 year recruiting ranking of 21. The bottom 6 have an average 3 year recruiting ranking of 50. Shocking I know.

It's not perfect though, when you really dig down.

USC is the best recruiting team in the conference, but only the 3rd best by record over a 3 year period. Why is that?

Well, one could argue coaching, they have had 3 head coaches in 3 years, and a lot of transfers, so retention wasn't great either.

Look at Oregon. One of the better recruiting teams in that conference but is on a big downward slide the last two years, 13-2, 9-4, and then 4-8 this year. Why is that when they are the #2 or #3 most talented team in the division?

#1 has been injuries, but #2 is that they didn't have a good coach. He just lost his job.

So remember, it's not that recruiting is everything, but it's still important, and probably one of the most important.

The rankings themselves aren't perfect, and this has been discussed ad nauseum, but they do have some general predictive power on the direction of a program. In the Pac 12 there is only 1 team in the top 6 of the conference by winning percentage over the past 3 years that wasn't also in the top 6 in the conference in recruiting, and that was Utah, who comes in at #9 in the conference in recruiting. Teams like that are the outlier, not the rule.


Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 6:57 pm to
LINK
quote:

ASSESSING TEAM RANKINGS. To do that, we have to start by creating a way to measure what the rankings project for each team. Using the "star" scale in a slightly different capacity, I classified all 72 teams residing in one of the "Big Six" BCS conferences in 2013 (the ACC, American, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC) along with Boise State, Notre Dame and BYU into one of five "classes," based on each team's accumulated recruiting rankings over the last four years, from 2010 to 2013. In the name of comprehensiveness, I'm using the composite team rankings compiled by 247Sports, an average of rankings from multiple services.


quote:

Big Six' Conference Teams by Recruiting Class
• FIVE-STAR: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas.

Note that, since 2003, the eleven teams in the "five-star" group have combined for 21 appearances in the BCS Championship game, compared to one appearance by any of the 64 teams listed below. (The lone exception in that span, Oregon, just barely missed the cut for five-star status.) The only "five-star" teams that never played for a title in the BCS era are Georgia and Michigan; among the rest, only Notre Dame failed to make a repeat trip.

• FOUR-STAR: Arkansas, California, Clemson, Miami, Nebraska, North Carolina, Ole Miss, Oregon, Penn State, South Carolina, Stanford, Tennessee, Texas A&M, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Washington.

• THREE-STAR: Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Mississippi State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, TCU, Texas Tech, Vanderbilt, Virginia, West Virginia.

• TWO-STAR: BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Houston, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Minnesota, N.C. State, Northwestern, Purdue, South Florida, Utah, Washington State, Wisconsin.

• ONE-STAR: Boise State, Boston College, Central Florida, Connecticut, Duke, Iowa State, Kansas State, Memphis, SMU, Syracuse, Temple, Wake Forest.

Over the same four-year span, those 75 teams played head-to-head 1,488 times. Here are the results of those games, with winning records in black and losing records in red:





Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 7:02 pm to
Please show where I or anyone else has done this?

It's the pumpers who blame injuries, WM, Grier, Treon, etc for where we're at except the two most responsible. Mac and ultimately Foley. We've seen enough of Mac to know he is a average HC and subpar recruiter. You can give him a decade and he still wouldn't be able to turn UF around.
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 7:25 pm to
Average HCs dont win the East their first 2 seasons without a QB with a team that played bad enough to get the prior HC fired

Macs here for at least 2 more years. So stop bitching and be a fan. You do realize another changing of the HC will hurt the team for another 2 years at least?

I asked the rant to name a proven HC who. Would come here and instantly improve this team.
Still waiting on an answer. Please feel free to take a stab at it
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 8:28 pm to
I realize his crappy recruiting will hurt us far more. It's not my job but they'd do better than this:

quote:

Now I certainly don’t consider myself an insider in any form of the word, but I have become very good friends with a HS football coach here in FL who from time to time gives me some good inside knowledge of different programs from around the State based on his experience.

Was at this coach’s house yesterday and for the first time I flat out asked him, “What do you think of Coach Mac?” He smiled and told me the following story. (I apologize for the lengthy write-up)
This coach is fortunate enough to have a stud QB at his school. The QB is a sophomore this season so recruiting is really starting to pick up. Over summer, the QB got a call from Alabama they told him they were very interested in him and wanted him to come up for a camp. Of course, he said yes.


When he arrived, he was greeted at his car by a Bama GA in a golf cart who took him directly to the IPF. There, he was greeted by Lane and proceeded to stretch/warm up for about 30 minutes with Lane talking to him the whole time. He was with a handful of other athletes at this time. After warm ups, him and Lane walked out of the IPF and to another practice field where he threw specifically for Lane. No other QBs were there. After about 30 mins of this, Saban walked up and watched the QB throw and started talking to him. He then invited this kid to his office where they spent the next 2-3 hours chatting one-on-one. Saban said this kid was his #1 target for class of 2019 but that he typically does not offer sophomores and therefore wanted to wait a little bit a see more film out of him. Saban told him that if he continued on the path he was on, he would be getting a Bama offer in the not so distant future.



part 2: Fast forward about a week and the QB gets a call from UF (not sure which coach). UF asks him to come up for a camp. The QB agrees but his family is not in town to take him so he asks his coach (my friend) if he would drive him up there, which he of course does. One thing to mention is that my buddy is pretty good friends with Geoff Collins and with our S&C coach due to past relationships. So when they get to UF, they park at the IPF and call the number they were given to call. No answer. They then try to call Coach Collins. No answer. They try for a few minutes and get no response.

So they decide just to walk into the IPF. When they walk in there are hundreds of “little” kids camping there. They find Coach Collins and he immediately begins to apologize to them that they forgot they had a youth camp there that weekend and it was crazy. (As a side not, personally I think it’s great that we are holding these youth camps, just not sure that you want to invite a stud QB to the campus on the same weekend.) So after talking for a few minutes with Coach Collins, he tells them to walk over to the stadium, speak with Megan (I think that was the name he said) at the desk and tell her that Coach Collins said you should be given a tour of the facilities. So they do just that. When they find Megan, they tell her what Coach Collins told them.


She looks at the list that she has in front of her and says that Coach Collins didn’t put you on the list so I can’t let you in. So disappointed, they ask if they can at least see the weight room as my buddy is interested in seeing if he can find the S&C coach. They are taken to the weight room, find the S&C coach and as they are talking to them a GA walks up and tells them that they need to register for the camp. He tells them that they need to go back upstairs, fill out the registration form and pay the $40 fee. The QB says that he has no money on him. So my buddy ends up paying for him. They then tell the QB that they need his physical to take part in the camp. Well, he doesn’t have one with him. They try to explain that they were invited by the coaching staff personally and weren’t told to bring anything, but they say that he must have one. So my buddy has to drive this QB to the nearest walk-in clinic and get him a physical.

Finally, they are part 3: They go back to the IPF and someone tells them that all campers have to do 30 mins of conditioning prior to throwing. The QB says that he really wasn’t prepared to condition for 30 mins and that he thought he was just there to throw a few balls. The GA gets Coach Nuss to come over and introduces him to the QB. Nuss says that everyone has to condition. So the QB conditions. Then Nuss separates the campers and the QB is placed with the freshman and sophomore group. Now mind you, this QB is already a grown man. And now he is throwing with a bunch of “average” freshman and sophomore HS QBs who he towers over by about a foot and he is throwing to a bunch of 5’6” freshman WRs. The QB asks if he could be put in the group with the juniors and seniors. Nuss says no. A few minutes later Coach Mac walks over and says “Are you the (insert last name) boy?” The QB says yes and Mac asks him why he is throwing with the little kids. The QB said he has no idea. Apparently Nuss had no idea who he was or he didn’t seem to care too much. Now again, it would be pretty easy to recognize that this kid is no normal 16 year old. Coach Mac brings him over with the bigger kids and watches him throw a bit. At one point he pulls him over to the side with him, my buddy and Coach Nuss and begins to tell him that he spoke with Saban and Saban thinks very highly of this kid as a QB. And he says that Florida is very much interested in him as well. Nuss steps in and says something to the effect of “well, we really don’t know that much about you so we are still trying to gather a bunch of information.”
My buddy said Mac was standing behind Nuss and looked pissed as hell when he said that. Anyway, the day goes on without much else to report.


At the end of the story, my buddy tells me that on the drive to UF that day, out of the blue the QB says that if UF offers today he was going to accept it because the QB wants to play in the SEC and wants to stay in-State. He has had a couple of siblings who went off to play different sports far away from home and it hasn’t always worked out that well or been easy on the family. My buddy is surprised by this comment, but doesn’t say much to try to change his mind. Well when the QB leaves he says, “I don’t care if UF ever offers me, I’m never going there!” He said that it was the worst camping experience he has ever been on and was absolutely miserable the whole time.


On a side note, one of this kids’ first offers was from UCF. I asked my buddy what he and the boy thought about Frost and he said they are both blown away by him. The QB even said that he would seriously consider committing to UCF is it wasn’t for the fact that he knows that Frost will be gone in the next few years.
My buddy said that he actually thinks that Mac is a good guy and could be a good recruiter but there it is very obvious that there is a serious disconnect between Mac and some of the other coaches.

He said that until they get stuff straightened out and all are working on the same page, it will be tough for them to pull the elite talent especially when going against a well-oiled machine like Alabama.


I'd throw money at Fleck
Scott Frost
Chip Kelly

Mac has been destroyed by teams with equal talent.

He won the east because it was terrible just like Missouri. He's gone after 2017. His offenses were just as bad as WMs who had tougher SoSs. Both are terrible HCs
This post was edited on 12/17/16 at 8:33 pm
Posted by slayerxing
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
11045 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 9:41 pm to
I pray to god that story is total bs.
Posted by reel_gator8
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
11060 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 10:41 pm to
TJ: you lost me at Chip Kelly...DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING? If you fricking did...you would know that Kelly HATES college football and will NEVER go back to it again...and thats his fricking quote. He hated recruiting dumb arse.

I am so glad you were able to share your friends story with us and of course there are two sides to every story...isnt there????????

Go frick yourself and stop the endless negative crap.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 10:52 pm to
It's not my story. As for Kelly link that quote. Reality doesn't meet you and DBs delusional when you look at his recruiting and his results.
Posted by gatordmb89
Member since Dec 2009
30458 posts
Posted on 12/17/16 at 11:05 pm to
Pretty safe to say it's likely embellished, but I believe parts of it.
Posted by reel_gator8
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
11060 posts
Posted on 12/18/16 at 3:59 am to
I bet you a million dollars that if you talked to this kid that the story would be totally different.

Did Bama charge him for coming to a camp? Im sure they did. AND maybe...just maybe his HS coach doesnt like the Gators? And of course if thats the case...you can bet that sabotage isnt out of the realm of possibility?

People will fall for this...just as they have already on other boards....if its on the internet it must be true. Like cattle they will listen to this kind of crap and believe it word for word.

You want a link for Kelly? The quote is years old and I dont give a damn if you believe me...but its true. Some coaches dont like college and vice versa.

Chip Kelly
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
NCAA sanctions
On April 16, 2013, the Oregonian reported that the University of Oregon has offered to put its football program on two years probation in response to NCAA violations that allegedly took place during Kelly's tenure as head coach.[20] On June 26, 2013 the NCAA Committee on Infractions issued its report concluding the investigation into Oregon's use of football scouting services. Oregon received 3 years of probation, reduction of scholarships, but no bowl ban. Kelly received an 18-month show-cause penalty, which would make his hiring by another NCAA institution difficult.

Chip Kelly doesn’t miss his recruiting days at all
Posted by Darin Gantt on November 23, 2013, 9:32 AM EST

Kelly would rather be drawing Xs and Os or researching ways to make his team better than criss-crossing the country convincing teenagers to wear a dozen different uniforms a year.

“My schedule, the day the season was over, was a lot worse than my schedule here because you’re planes, trains and automobiles recruiting from Sunday night until Friday afternoon and hustling back and practicing, getting a practice in Friday afternoon, practice Saturday, practice Sunday, get back on a plane and fly around the country chasing down recruits,” he said, via Sheil Kapadia of PhillyMag.com. “Maybe a misconception is when you’re a college coach and the last game is done and then the bowl game comes, you don’t have a month off. I would argue my schedule was more hectic from a recruiting standpoint than it was here.

by Pete Volk@Pete_Volk Oct 23, 2014, 11:56am EDT

Chip Kelly does not love recruiting. In an interview with Philly Mag, he said one of the main advantages of working in the NFL (besides that hefty salary figure, presumably) was not having to spend time on the recruiting trail. He said his college schedule was more hectic in the offseason than during the season because of it, and losing that added responsibility allows him to spend more time watching tape, which he called the "fun part" of the job.

By Doug Samuels - December 2, 2016

Asked about Kelly “hating” the recruiting aspect of coaching at the college level, Helf responded, “I’m not sure if he hated recruiting…dislike, a strong dislike.”

Kelly, of course maintained his commitment to staying in the NFL



This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 4:14 am
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/18/16 at 5:15 am to
quote:

Mac has been destroyed by teams with more talent and depth.



FIFY
Posted by dbuchanon
Member since Nov 2014
19837 posts
Posted on 12/18/16 at 5:21 am to
quote:

I'd throw money at Fleck


I dont want Florida to be his first big gig. Pass

Dont force change for the sake of change. Again, there are no PROVEN HC's that are going to come to UF and flip this team into what you think it should be over night.

If Mac comes out next season and he still cant get a QB to complete a 10 yard pass, hey ill be standing right there with you waving the flag. But until then, we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll turn it around. I'm sure the offensive woes have impacted recruiting. I fully believe if Franks comes out next yr and even resembles a starting QB we'll be fine.
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