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re: By the numbers
Posted on 12/20/16 at 6:45 am to reel_gator8
Posted on 12/20/16 at 6:45 am to reel_gator8
quote:
UF was loaded with 4 & 5 * talent
Loaded with talent under Muschamp and he went 4-8.
People act like recruiting classes that fill needs and end up ranked 10-15 are completely devoid of talent, like that recruiting class isn't better than 115 other programs in in the country. I'll take a class with > 50% 4 and 5 stars and some three stars that are criminally overrated every day of the week if it means we win championships.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:15 am to atlgator
You need a class with 60%+ 4-4*s. WM got talent but he couldn't coach it up. Mac is getting less talent and can't coach it up. Our schedule is brutal next year and you're gonna see what happens when Mac doesn't have a top defense to save his terrible offense. You guys are magically banking on a RFr to light it up who couldn't beat out LDR or AA and an OL that can't open holes to let the RBs run. The defense will be porous and the offense will need to score 35+ to keep us in games. Seeing what I see from Mac and Co on game day I don't see that happening. So the blowouts will only continue.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 8:13 am to TJGator1215
Defense is gonna suck next year. Keep hearing this yet.....
You guys need T-shirts.
You guys need T-shirts.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 8:24 am to dbuchanon
I don't think it's going to suck, but I think the numbers late in the year last year suggest it may drop off a bit.
Sucking on defense is relative at Florida. For example, that 2007 defense that was so horribly bad was only #41 in total defense, but by UF standards, that was really really bad. They gave up about 360 yards per game and 25.5 points. A lot of other teams would be OK with that, but at Florida, it's historical levels of bad.
Sucking on defense is relative at Florida. For example, that 2007 defense that was so horribly bad was only #41 in total defense, but by UF standards, that was really really bad. They gave up about 360 yards per game and 25.5 points. A lot of other teams would be OK with that, but at Florida, it's historical levels of bad.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 5:11 pm to reel_gator8
It's a fact that most if not all of the SEC and national championship teams have had great recruiting classes. Who is the last SEC champion or national champion to not have great recruiting classes the 4 years before they won ? If recruiting doesn't matter then why have only the big 6 won the SEC championship game? Talent matters just ask Steve Spurrier he owned the SEC while at UF but he couldn't win the SEC at USCe. How many National championship did Saban have as a head coach before he got to Bama and how many has he had at Bama? We maybe able to coach our way to east titles but as you can see from the title games Bama has a lot more talent and coaches that are just as good if not better.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 8:25 pm to slayerxing
quote:
For example, that 2007 defense that was so horribly bad
quote:
slayerxing
The reason we werent stout on defense in 2007 is because all of Zooks seniors and some juniors were gone after 2006 BCS NC. We had a Heisman award winner in Tebow because he carried the team on his back...but to Charlie Strongs credit...the 2008 defense was awesome and surprised me...because I thought we were a year away from fielding a much better defense. Meyer really inherited a stacked defense. I never cared much for Meyer like other UF coaches and it was his "I know it all" and the way he talked down to folks that bothered me. Boom inherited a mess in the locker room and the inmates were running the asylum.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 9:26 pm to tjv305
Alabama is ranked number 1 in team talent based on recruiting rankings of players currently on their roster.
Ohio State is 4th
Clemson is 10th
Washington is 24th
Florida is 16th. Recruiting does determine who wins championships. What you guys fail to understand is that recruiting in the top 12 in the country is good enough to compete for championships if you have good coaches (i.e. Chris Peterson, Jim McElwain) All of that being said, this is Florida, not Washington. Recruiting should be better than it is. Some reasons why recruiting isn't where it should be could be that FSU is at one of the highest points in program history while we are only 3 years removed from one of the worst seasons in program history. It's going to take time to flip the recruiting narrative back in our favor, but I think that Mac can and will do it. We just have to keep building the program, you've seen us rebuild from the ground up since Mac took over, and in these two offensive rebuild years we have had enough success to go to the SEC Championship Game twice. I think we will only continue to get better on the field and in recruiting under Mac.
Ohio State is 4th
Clemson is 10th
Washington is 24th
Florida is 16th. Recruiting does determine who wins championships. What you guys fail to understand is that recruiting in the top 12 in the country is good enough to compete for championships if you have good coaches (i.e. Chris Peterson, Jim McElwain) All of that being said, this is Florida, not Washington. Recruiting should be better than it is. Some reasons why recruiting isn't where it should be could be that FSU is at one of the highest points in program history while we are only 3 years removed from one of the worst seasons in program history. It's going to take time to flip the recruiting narrative back in our favor, but I think that Mac can and will do it. We just have to keep building the program, you've seen us rebuild from the ground up since Mac took over, and in these two offensive rebuild years we have had enough success to go to the SEC Championship Game twice. I think we will only continue to get better on the field and in recruiting under Mac.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 9:40 pm to slayerxing
That defense was loaded with 4-5* talent though it was young. As for QB development LDR and AA both regressed as the season progressed. If he's so great at developing QBs why didn't he put in Trask or Franks in during several games to get them experience instead of keep trotting LDR or AA out there. That way if they both suck you have another option than a kid that got zero game or practice reps and have hope instead of having a disastrous end to your season again That tells me all I need to know about Mac's QB development. Another Sabanite riding his success to a huge buyout check.
This post was edited on 12/20/16 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 12/20/16 at 9:44 pm to atlgator
quote:
if you have good coaches (i.e. Chris Peterson, Jim McElwain)
I'm sorry but this is a fricking laughable comparison- if you want to compare McElwain to Bryan Harsin (current Boise HC) you might be able to make that argument but just straight up comparing a man whose never won a conference title to a guy who won multiple BCS bowls at a non-P5 school?
There are "Mac" level HCs available all the time, guys like Peterson are far rarer they aren't interchangeable UW would laugh at the idea while UF would fire Mac on the spot if that was a real possibility.
This post was edited on 12/20/16 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 12/20/16 at 9:54 pm to atlgator
Wtf has Mac built from the ground up? The 114th rank offense? WM can do that. It's not hard. Mac had to fix the OL, find a QB and upgrade The talent at WR and TE and maintain the defensive talent. So far he's 1/5. We made the SECCG because the defense stopped LSU on 4&G and UT shite the bed. Someone had to win the East. It showed the last 2 years in a combined score of 83-31 losees to Bama. Mac conpares to Charlie Weis or Bill Callahan than Chris Petersen.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 10:24 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
Mac conpares to Charlie Weis or Bill Callahan than Chris Petersen.
We'll leave this here until Saban skull drags Wash. Then what will the excuse be?
Posted on 12/20/16 at 10:27 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
The 114th rank offense? WM can do that. It's not hard.
Apparently it was.
quote:
Mac had to fix the OL,
Getting better
quote:
find a QB
Franks
Trask
Jake
quote:
upgrade The talent at WR and TE
WR corps is mostly 4 star players, has a 4 star TE in this class
quote:
maintain the defensive talent.
That remains to be seen as it hasnt had a major drop off
quote:
So far he's 1/5
May wanna re count
Posted on 12/21/16 at 11:42 pm to dbuchanon
You're assuming that Franks has fixed his issues, a kid that never started in HS is a gem, and Allen's back doesn't become a problem. The OL is atrocious against even average teams. The defensive drop off has been huge as you Will see in 2017. You can't plug in FR or barely used Sophs into games and expect them to pick it up easy. They struggle. That's even with a team full of juniors. We're gonna have freshman all over the defense playing in the SEC. Does Mac have a TT stashed somewhere to carry this team next year?
Posted on 12/22/16 at 6:25 am to TJGator1215
quote:
You're assuming that Franks has fixed his issues
And you're assuming he hasn't, despite all the reports that have said he's picked up his play as the season went along.
quote:
The defensive drop off has been huge as you Will see in 2017.
So you say the drop off has already been huge, but it hasn't. We're ranked like 6th in total defense if I recall correctly, and at or near the top of nearly every statistical category. So the drop off on the field since Mac has taken over "has" not been huge.
Then I guess you realize that the drop off hasn't actually been huge so you say "as you will see in 2017", which is interesting because that's making an assumption. And you refuted a previous posters point for making an assumption as well. And beyond that, you're throwing shite at the wall and hoping it sticks. The defense will obviously take a slight step back because there's so many young players that will be playing for us next year, but all signs point that this team has a lot of young but talented defensive talent. All of the young linebackers, all of the young talented DBs coming in, two really really good safeties in Marcell Harris and Nick Washington, and a talented defensive line that's proven to be productive. So no, the defensive drop off has not be huge now, and I strongly doubt it will be anything more than slight in 2017.
quote:
You can't plug in FR or barely used Sophs into games and expect them to pick it up easy. They struggle.
It's incredible that you make this point to kind of have a reason why the defense will struggle next year, but you wouldn't allow the offense to have this same reason when myself and others said this previously. This is extremely interesting. I completely agree with this premise. Young but talented players struggle to play with consistency, but show flashes of ability. Does that sound familiar? It all circles back to not having any upper classmen playmakers on offense. Next season, finally, some of our best players will be upper classmen who understand the game fully, and will play with more consistency. I think that a lot of young guys have gotten experience this season so it will make the learning curve a little less steep for the young guys.
I'm really proud of you for seemingly finding a glimmer of critical thinking skills. Understanding that a team full of freshmen and sophomores will struggle, even if there's some juniors thrown in there too, is a great first step for you. Now can you understand that the offense struggled because every starter on offense was a freshman or sophomore (one of Mac's guys) except for David Sharpe? This is where the problem lies. In Mac's second year, he shouldn't have been counting on the freshmen he brought in to win games for him, he should be relying on the talented upperclassmen that the previous coach left behind. Mac doesn't have that luxury. Give the guy a fricking chance and stop being a dick about him being the coach. He's here for two more years at least. You might as well root for him and for the team to be successful. It has to be miserable, as a fan, to hate your own team.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 8:01 am to atlgator
How'd UFs team talent fair against Bama, FSU or even average teams like Arkansas and UT?
Posted on 12/22/16 at 8:01 am to atlgator
How'd UFs team talent fair against Bama, FSU or even average teams like Arkansas and UT?
Posted on 12/22/16 at 8:26 am to TJGator1215
You change to subject to fit your narrative instead of having a response to my point. Because there is no explanation to refute my point because it doesn't fit your narrative
Posted on 12/22/16 at 8:55 am to atlgator
We also had reports that LDR was killing it in practice. How'd he do in games? My assumptions are based on the results of the QBs neither Franks or Trask could unseat. How'd we do against LSU, FSU and Bama in total D? Or even UT or Arkansas? The defense looked good because we didn't play a tough schedule.
LSU-423-10
FSU-387-31
Bama-372-43
You're assuming that the DBs can play right off the bus that Reese, Joseph, Moon and Johnson can handle being major contributors every game. Nick Washington got burned plenty of times during this year. Marcell Harris stepped up but there's zero experience behind him and Washington.
Our DL got manhandled against even average OLs and we have zero DT depth and average talent there.
The 2007 defense was loaded
with NFL talent in Haden, Harvey, Wright, Dunlap, Spikes, Cunningham, Black, Trattou etc. It still finished with 4 losses, giving up 25 ppg and 361 yards of offense with Charlie Strong, Greg Mattison, Doc Holliday, and Chuck Heater coaching. As for your snide comments about critical thinking you should try it and gargle some bleach while your at it.I've said all along the defense will struggle because it's young but it will struggle more due to lack of talent and adequate depth. Apparently you can't read. This will help:
The offense shouldn't have struggled because Mac is an offensive coach, Nuss was the OC and LDR had been in the system and the OL had plenty of in game experience. Yet in every facet of the game the offense struggled. Again, for the 2nd straight year.
Go look at the teams with OLs with less experience than our OL or the same # of young starters and how they did. Did TAMU, Houston, Texas, ND, Bama, Oklahoma, etc. Have trouble scoring with young OLs? I'll always root for UF but Mac isn't the guy. Its just that simple.
LSU-423-10
FSU-387-31
Bama-372-43
You're assuming that the DBs can play right off the bus that Reese, Joseph, Moon and Johnson can handle being major contributors every game. Nick Washington got burned plenty of times during this year. Marcell Harris stepped up but there's zero experience behind him and Washington.
Our DL got manhandled against even average OLs and we have zero DT depth and average talent there.
The 2007 defense was loaded
with NFL talent in Haden, Harvey, Wright, Dunlap, Spikes, Cunningham, Black, Trattou etc. It still finished with 4 losses, giving up 25 ppg and 361 yards of offense with Charlie Strong, Greg Mattison, Doc Holliday, and Chuck Heater coaching. As for your snide comments about critical thinking you should try it and gargle some bleach while your at it.I've said all along the defense will struggle because it's young but it will struggle more due to lack of talent and adequate depth. Apparently you can't read. This will help:
The offense shouldn't have struggled because Mac is an offensive coach, Nuss was the OC and LDR had been in the system and the OL had plenty of in game experience. Yet in every facet of the game the offense struggled. Again, for the 2nd straight year.
Go look at the teams with OLs with less experience than our OL or the same # of young starters and how they did. Did TAMU, Houston, Texas, ND, Bama, Oklahoma, etc. Have trouble scoring with young OLs? I'll always root for UF but Mac isn't the guy. Its just that simple.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 9:44 am to TJGator1215
quote:
Did TAMU, Houston, Texas, ND, Bama, Oklahoma, etc. Have trouble scoring with young OLs?
Did any of these teams have more success than Florida save for Alabama and maybe Oklahoma?
The offense was fine in the Kentucky game. It was not fine when LDR was hurt and when Appleby was playing. It's easy to point to all of the games we lost and say "what happened to the defense there?" The score in the FSU game was 24-13 and we had the ball with like 10 minutes left (and a turnover by the offense was the reason for 7 of FSU's points). The defense in the FSU game is practically our defense next year but with a couple of redshirt freshmen playing and new incoming freshmen. They were FINE and will be FINE. The offense is why we lost that game, the UT game, he'll, even the Bama game. The defense's only stinker was the game against Arkansas.
There's plenty of NFL talent on our defense. They'll be absolutely fine with the more and more experience they gain.
Has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps Franks and Trask were redshirting and it wouldn't be good for the long term of the program to burn their redshirt? The offensive struggles are directly linked to the quarterback. If Franks is what everyone who has a clue about the program says he's becoming, then the offense will become explosive in a hurry next year. You can't run the ball when there's 10 people in the box every snap because they don't respect your quarterback. You can't throw the ball because you have two cast offs playing quarterback. The defense gets worn down because you can't convert first downs.
If we become a threat to throw the ball, if our quarterback can hit the open receivers that run all over the field, then the defense will have to respect the passing game, this with back them off the line of scrimmage which will give the running backs and OL more room to exert their will. This improves the running game. Then all of a sudden, you're getting first downs, the offense is moving the ball, the defense is staying fresh, and your team is playing at a higher level. It seems overly simple, but it really comes down to getting a quarterback.
Mac and Nuss are offensive minds. Once they get a quarterback that they can mold and develop into their vision of what a quarterback should be to be successful in their system, you'll see us reap the benefits and be successful on offense. I think we take a huge step forward on offense next year now that we have stitched up quarterback with Mac's guys and won't be dealing with a bandaid at quarterback.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 10:09 am to atlgator
These latest comments are dangerously off topic.
Talk of offensive game planning? Mac and Nuss are offensive minds and just need a QB? How dare you mention that in a thread about recruiting numbers!!!! No, no, no, I do not accept that discussions about coaches are pertinent to college football recruiting. The coaches are not involved. Only recruits are involved.
Dammit, now I find no value in this board. It's just so off topic. I can't understand any of this.
Where is Frau Merkel to issue the time outs? Get the storm troopers in here and clean up this mess!!!!
Talk of offensive game planning? Mac and Nuss are offensive minds and just need a QB? How dare you mention that in a thread about recruiting numbers!!!! No, no, no, I do not accept that discussions about coaches are pertinent to college football recruiting. The coaches are not involved. Only recruits are involved.
Dammit, now I find no value in this board. It's just so off topic. I can't understand any of this.
Where is Frau Merkel to issue the time outs? Get the storm troopers in here and clean up this mess!!!!
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