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re: Everyone agrees the ancient Romans were the greatest ancient civilization....

Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:13 pm to
Posted by Trumansfangs
Town & Country
Member since Sep 2018
7221 posts
Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:13 pm to
quote:


The small-unit capabilities and maneuverability of the legion structure (including cohorts and centuries, along with cavalry) is what allowed them to conquer nearly everything they set their eyes on - thus acquiring the other inventions you mentioned.





Tactical equality is nothing to be sneezed at as well.
Posted by SeaCay
Odessa, FL
Member since Mar 2012
1820 posts
Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

Nobody like Brisket.


GTFO.

Just because you suck at cooking brisket...
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
6216 posts
Posted on 10/20/22 at 8:06 pm to
quote:

You forgot to include military tactics and organization.


Not really. The Roman legion was developed from the existing greek phalanx. What Rome did was break the phalanx from a total infantry formation into effectively "small scale" phalanxes that were able to be moved independently of each other. They gained flexibility.

When the phalanx and the legion actually fought, the greeks didn't use Alexander's tactics (of using cavalry to control the flanks), instead just throwing their phalanx at the roman legions and cavalry... so the romans kicked their asses. If the greeks had been able to use cavalry to control the flanks, the phalanx would have destroyed the legion.

Probably the biggest advance from helenistic combat to roman combat was that helenistic commanders were at the front fighting, while roman commanders gave orders from the rear. This allowed them to better use the flexibility of the legions over the strength of the phalanx head on by being able to regularly outflank the greeks once Alexanders tactics of cavalry flanking had been abandoned.

The legion gained advantage any time they could force the greeks to abandon their long spears and fight with their swords (kopis). While the massed long spears could penetrate the roman shields, those shields were far superior to greek shields that gave the romans a huge advantage in hand to hand.

Regardless, neither would have stood up well to the Han armies in china. They had crossbows that would penetrate any armor that was available at the time. The crossbow didn't make it's way to europe until the 12 century. In the second century, the chinese army already had 50,000 crossbowmen.

We tend to be very western focused in what we learn about... but for a long time China was well ahead of the west in terms of technology, including military technology. China had cannon two centuries before it made it's way to europe.
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
24931 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:01 am to
Lonnie is such a good poster, he's simultaneously managed to spur debate on both the proper application of barbeque sauce and the history of western civilization.

Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:13 am to
quote:

Just because you suck at cooking brisket...



I don't cook Brisket.

The most populous country in the world, India, would agree with me...
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:14 am to
quote:

Hey Lonnie, is there a quiz after this thread? Go ahead and flunk me…haha


Gawd I hope not. I mean, some people just cant take a joke...
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:15 am to
quote:

Lonnie is such a good poster, he's simultaneously managed to spur debate on both the proper application of barbeque sauce and the history of western civilization.



Well apparently neither the Aggies or the Gamecocks want to talk about football....
Posted by Sgt_Nick_Fury
Chattanooga
Member since Sep 2012
229 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:21 am to
1) I concur Mustard and pork are awesome, and forever shall be. Though my German tastes prefers this as old whole seed mustard on pork brats with saur kraut for most all of the fall period.

2) Rome is not usually considered an ancient civilization, as it after 1500 BC, it's sort of the turning point from ancient world to medieval world. Or maybe even teh first "modern" civilization, as the reversion after it fell is considered the dark ages...a return to the ancient...

3) I do like Mustard based BBQ, though Carolina style.

4) I do like brisket....anyone who does not like brisket should turn in their carnivore card and become a vegan...

5) I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest asncient civilization reward....
This post was edited on 10/21/22 at 8:24 am
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:51 am to
quote:

1) I concur Mustard and pork are awesome, and forever shall be. Though my German tastes prefers this as old whole seed mustard on pork brats with saur kraut for most all of the fall period.


It was German immigrants to central South Carolina who developed Mustard based BBQ sauce to begin with. Nobody marries Mustard and Pork quite like the Germans.
Posted by Sgt_Nick_Fury
Chattanooga
Member since Sep 2012
229 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:12 am to
quote:

It was German immigrants to central South Carolina who developed Mustard based BBQ sauce to begin with. Nobody marries Mustard and Pork quite like the Germans.


So Say we all!
Posted by paperwasp
11x HRV tRant Poster of the Week
Member since Sep 2014
24931 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:15 am to
quote:

I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest ancient civilization reward

Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
37380 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:18 am to
quote:


Pork BBQ is better than beef BBQ


Counterpoint: nothing that comes out of a smoker is better than a good brisket.
Posted by Dotarian
Midwest
Member since Oct 2012
1349 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:22 am to
quote:

Aggies follow the motto of the armies of ancient Greece


"Never leave a man's behind"


You joke, but there's truth to that. I remember my Western Civ class (with Dr. Karl Roider ) talking about the Greek phalanx. Fighters would stand side to side, with their shield covering half of their body and half of the body of the man next to him.

And they intentionally put lovers next to each other in the line with idea that a man would fight harder to protect his partner, especially if he was responsible for shielding half of his body...

(Sidenote, Dr. Roider was the BOSS. He made a history-hater like me actually LIKE Western Civ. Changed my whole outlook on the topic).
Posted by wadewilson
Member since Sep 2009
37380 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:25 am to
quote:


The most populous country in the world, India, would agree with me...


And the most dominant religion in the world would declare a jihad on Chicken if they discovered this thread.
Posted by Sgt_Nick_Fury
Chattanooga
Member since Sep 2012
229 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:26 am to
quote:

And the most dominant religion in the world would declare a jihad on Chicken if they discovered this thread.


If I'm gonna be honest I'll put Applewood smoked Bird of any kind up there with pork or beef.
Posted by lewis and herschel
Member since Nov 2009
12396 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:29 am to
Auburn fan, I just feel sorry for you little brother. Tech and Auburn damn sad, pathetic really.
Posted by Dotarian
Midwest
Member since Oct 2012
1349 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:30 am to
quote:

I would like to try Atlantean BBQ before we hand out the greatest ancient civilization reward....


Wouldn't that be a little.....

...watery?
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:37 am to
quote:

So Say we all!


So says the guy who's heritage is 31% German...
Posted by Sgt_Nick_Fury
Chattanooga
Member since Sep 2012
229 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:39 am to
quote:

Wouldn't that be a little.....

...watery?


At this point yes. However we don't know, and I need to know before I can rank their civilization.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
26617 posts
Posted on 10/21/22 at 10:39 am to
quote:

I remember my Western Civ class (with Dr. Karl Roider ) talking about the Greek phalanx. Fighters would stand side to side, with their shield covering half of their body and half of the body of the man next to him.


I think you're on to something...

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