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re: Auburn offense with Sean White at Qb
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:36 am to TTsTowel
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:36 am to TTsTowel
quote:
Although, John Franklin III is clearly the fastest runner Gus Malzahn has had at quarterback, his arm strength is nowhere near that of Cam Newton and Nick Marshall.
This is my issue with JF3.
1
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:47 am to ChexMix
quote:
no stats available. Seems ya left that off on purpose.
Typically happens when a Heisman winner and future BCS champion starter are on the roster with seniority
While I'm in no way sold, JF3 has better arm strength which is the important thing. It is how the panthers offense revolves around Tedd Ginn, he runs deep and teams run a safety and corner out of the play despite Ginn having brick hands
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:01 am to GenesChin
quote:
JF3 has better arm strength
What makes you say that? I have seen absolutely nothing to say JF3 or SW have more arm strength than the other.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:05 am to JamalSanders
quote:
What makes you say that? I have seen absolutely nothing to say JF3 or SW have more arm strength than the other.
KK said it once and I completely blame him if wrong.
Honestly I'm not super sold on JF3. I wish Woody early enrolled since physically I think he is the best fit
Posted on 6/2/16 at 9:16 am to GenesChin
quote:
KK said it once and I completely blame him if wrong.
Huh? I think SW has a stronger arm.
I think JF3's arm looks okay enough in his JUCO highlights but he really doesn't have much zip on the ball when he has to whiz it in there on an intermediate route. I don't even know if this is a real term but it seems like he has a "long" arm but not a strong one. Basically he can throw the ball long enough but can't throw a laser.
quote:
Honestly I'm not super sold on JF3. I wish Woody early enrolled since physically I think he is the best fit
I really am with ya here. I was truly hoping Woody was going to be an EE. I think he'd at least have given us a glimpse of what he could be at some point.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 10:12 am to WareagleKK
quote:
I think JF3's arm looks okay enough in his JUCO highlights
We talked about JF3's arm strength and you got me convinced it was definitely enough for downfield passing. That ismy story, I'm sticking with it
quote:
I really am with ya here. I was truly hoping Woody was going to be an EE. I think he'd at least have given us a glimpse of what he could be at some point.
I have weird feelings about Gus developing QBs. I 100% believe that Gus can get a strong arm QB in a position to make his system work in short turnaround, especially if he can run. If Woody had a history of playing QB, I would expect him to be a serious contender for starting QB given the value of athletic talent > mental game for Gus' QBs
I view Gus' passing offense as very basic. It is essentially a single read on the safety and you know who is open given Gus' combination of downfield/short routes. I don't think it is surprising that even our "Bad" QBs under Gus typically have low INT totals. Nick Marshall was in the offense for only 2 weeks, wasn't super accurate and threw 20 INTs in JUCO yet threw for only about ~12 in his career
I see Sean White has shown promise to develop into a guy who can make reads and be a pocket passer who punishes defenses who have coverage busts. Unfortunately, I don't think Gus is the best guy to develop that talent nor his offense the best one to use that skill set
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 10:14 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:05 pm to GenesChin
quote:
I see Sean White has shown promise to develop into a guy who can make reads and be a pocket passer who punishes defenses who have coverage busts. Unfortunately, I don't think Gus is the best guy to develop that talent nor his offense the best one to use that skill set
The thing for me is I don't think Gus has gotten to where he is without being able to tell QBs how to read coverages and decipher what they should be doing with the ball based on different looks. I just think he hasn't had a QB who he felt he could trust to do it on their own. Basically has never had a film guy that also had the talent to carry out what he saw. I think Sean has that ability and Gus should use that to allow the offense to go as fast as possible, at times. But Gus is great at setting up play calls throughout a game so i also don't want the QB running the whole show.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:10 pm to WareagleKK
Honestly, though, JFIII might not have the arm strength of Nick Marshall and Cam Newton, but not many do. I've seen Nick Marshall throw the ball 72 yards in the air. We all know Cam Newton also has exceptional arm strength, on the NFL level.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:44 pm to TTsTowel
I see SW and JF3 both as too fragile to run the ball in an offense like NM. I see SW with the ability to read, throw, and scramble some if needed. This type of play let's him thrive and most likely remain healthy. JF3 would be much more run heavy, and I just see too much injury potential. I can see him used in a wildcat being effective, especially if he throws it some, and is not just in there as another RB. All of that assumes the O line can protect him and we can get some pass blocking to let the plays develop and give SW time to set up and make some longer throws to spread out the field. If Gus is only capable of performing with a true DT QB this will be a very long year.
If anyone has a link to some SW footage that shows his throwing ability I would love to see it.
If anyone has a link to some SW footage that shows his throwing ability I would love to see it.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:45 pm to WareagleKK
quote:
The thing for me is I don't think Gus has gotten to where he is without being able to tell QBs how to read coverages and decipher what they should be doing with the ball based on different looks.
His QBs have reads to make, but Gus clearly removes the complexity. He alters plays based on D formation for them and I imagine indicates what the read is in the process. Malzahn's stretch of the field is so extreme, the reads are basic after adjusting for D scheme.
Sacrificing arm talent for "elite decision making" is a poor trade off in the system. Just a decent decision making QB with arm talent will make good decisions in Gus' system
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:48 pm to JRoweMDN
quote:
I see SW and JF3 both as too fragile to run the ball in an offense like NM.
They would run like Marshall did early 2013 and OMac during his career outside the tackles in positions to slide/not take hits by big dudes. The inverted veer would be completely removed from the AU playbook with SW/JF3
quote:
If anyone has a link to some SW footage that shows his throwing ability I would love to see it.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:54 pm to JRoweMDN
quote:check the.OP
If anyone has a link to some SW footage that shows his throwing ability I would love to see it.
Posted on 6/3/16 at 7:21 am to GenesChin
quote:
Sacrificing arm talent for "elite decision making" is a poor trade off in the system. Just a decent decision making QB with arm talent will make good decisions in Gus' system
I don't think we'd be sacrificing arm talent going w/ SW over JF3. We'd just be sacrificing effectiveness on the zone read portion of the offense.
Posted on 6/3/16 at 7:38 am to WareagleKK
quote:
I don't think we'd be sacrificing arm talent going w/ SW over JF3. We'd just be sacrificing effectiveness on the zone read portion of the offense.
And we would be effectively giving up on the forward pass with JF3.
Posted on 6/3/16 at 9:42 am to JamalSanders
quote:
And we would be effectively giving up on the forward pass with JF3.
This is the issue I see too. And wen he gets hurt, there is no back up that can do what he does.
This video I found from SW in HS looks to me like he has a very capable arm. Is he an elite strong arm like NM no, but I think he has the capability of doing exciting things. Also watching him scramble in last years offense, he is a capable runner with a little blocking which I think we have this year.
LINK
This post was edited on 6/3/16 at 9:43 am
Posted on 6/3/16 at 10:55 am to JRoweMDN
quote:
And wen he gets hurt, there is no back up that can do what he does.
Why is it a guarantee that JF3 gets hurt? This is a dumb argument, we aren't running JF3 up the middle and his agility will make clean hits unlikely.
OMac was the same size as a RB and never had injuries during his 4 years.
quote:
Is he an elite strong arm like NM no, but I think he has the capability of doing exciting things
What type of exciting things? With Sean White we give up a ton of vertical stretch which is a massive part of Gus' offense
Posted on 6/3/16 at 10:59 am to JRoweMDN
quote:He had 35 rushing yards in 7 games, and ended up with a hurt knee.
Also watching him scramble in last years offense, he is a capable runner
Posted on 6/3/16 at 11:48 am to TTsTowel
GenesChin
OMac is a nice counter and point well made.
No guarantee JF3 gets hurt, but I think he will be spending a lot of time running and because of a lack of passing he is going to be more of a target than his agility can prevent. It looked like he never got touched in JUCO, so maybe that is the case. I would feel better if he had a little more size. I think he makes an outstanding wildcat option, especially if he can show a few passes to make the opposing defense wonder.
Looking at White in HS it looks like he has a better arm than he was permitted to show. I think he can stretch things out more than he gets credit for. Like I said, not like NM, but enough to make the defense worry.
TT
35yds includes sacks. He had a longest rush of 31 and 30 attempts. He is by no means a running QB, but he has the ability to scamper. Nick Chubb also ended up with a hurt knee last year, dumb shite happens.
I still think there is a better chance of building an offense around White that another QB could step into effectively, than one that is so run heavy that White cannot step in and handle it if needed. Last year I think he was going to move ahead, then he got hurt, so we are stuck with 2 unknowns.
The whole season is more about having a complete offense and defense, than the one position. None of this will matter if the OL does not protect, and the WR cannot catch. None of this matters if the defense cannot stop some scores and give us some field position. The team is walking a thin line, and it will take some magic for it all to come together.
OMac is a nice counter and point well made.
No guarantee JF3 gets hurt, but I think he will be spending a lot of time running and because of a lack of passing he is going to be more of a target than his agility can prevent. It looked like he never got touched in JUCO, so maybe that is the case. I would feel better if he had a little more size. I think he makes an outstanding wildcat option, especially if he can show a few passes to make the opposing defense wonder.
Looking at White in HS it looks like he has a better arm than he was permitted to show. I think he can stretch things out more than he gets credit for. Like I said, not like NM, but enough to make the defense worry.
TT
35yds includes sacks. He had a longest rush of 31 and 30 attempts. He is by no means a running QB, but he has the ability to scamper. Nick Chubb also ended up with a hurt knee last year, dumb shite happens.
I still think there is a better chance of building an offense around White that another QB could step into effectively, than one that is so run heavy that White cannot step in and handle it if needed. Last year I think he was going to move ahead, then he got hurt, so we are stuck with 2 unknowns.
The whole season is more about having a complete offense and defense, than the one position. None of this will matter if the OL does not protect, and the WR cannot catch. None of this matters if the defense cannot stop some scores and give us some field position. The team is walking a thin line, and it will take some magic for it all to come together.
This post was edited on 6/3/16 at 11:49 am
Posted on 6/3/16 at 12:10 pm to JRoweMDN
quote:I'm aware.
35yds includes sacks.
quote:Barrett Trotter and Clint Moseley had the ability to scamper. Being able to "scamper" doesn't really work in this offense.
He is by no means a running QB, but he has the ability to scamper
quote:Both are enormous question marks which leads me to believe JFIII is Auburn's best option. He isn't the best passer, but I doubt a good passer helps when the best receivers are young and the older, more experienced, guys are mediocre. Also, JFIII can fly and evade the pressure. Plus, him being on the field allows us to run the closest thing to Gus Malzahn's offense we saw in 2010, 2013 and 2014, although he doesn't have the arm strength of Cam Newton and Nick Marshall.
None of this will matter if the OL does not protect, and the WR cannot catch.
Posted on 6/3/16 at 12:20 pm to TTsTowel
quote:
Barrett Trotter and Clint Moseley had the ability to scamper. Being able to "scamper" doesn't really work in this offense.
No they didn't, Trotter barely had knees.
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