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re: Mykel Williams
Posted on 12/29/23 at 11:04 am to Rex Feral
Posted on 12/29/23 at 11:04 am to Rex Feral
Football and NIL are separate in the court's eyes.
Players are student athletes with scholarships. AND independent contractors with NIL deals.
The entire concept is that they are 2 separate entities not related to one another. It is against NCAA rules to tie "football play" into the NIL contract.
Players are student athletes with scholarships. AND independent contractors with NIL deals.
The entire concept is that they are 2 separate entities not related to one another. It is against NCAA rules to tie "football play" into the NIL contract.
2
Posted on 12/29/23 at 11:26 am to meansonny
If the NCAA gave made it mandatory for colleges to pay for at least 4 years as part of the binding agreement, lifetime medical for any related injuries, and capped coaches salaries, we would not be here at this point, I firmly believe.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 12:28 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
If the NCAA gave made it mandatory for colleges to pay for at least 4 years as part of the binding agreement
Colleges don't care about paying tuition. They are colleges. There is virtually no cost to the college for attendance.
The issue stems from the ncaa limiting scholarship numbers. You know this. And you know the few circumstances when a school can pay tuition when an athlete is off the 85 man roster (medical).
I shouldn't be teaching you about how the ncaa restricts scholarship rosters. You've lived it better than anyone else on this board, imo.
quote:
lifetime medical for any related injuries,
Whether it is right or it is wrong, tell me that isn't opening up a case of worms for abuse.
And for the record, most procedures post football are covered under insurance (if you hate your deductibles/plan, thank a Democrat. If you don't have insurance, that is a you problem).
I'm sure there is an in-between solution other than "insurance for life" which would bankrupt any organization on the hook for that.
quote:That would be challenged in courts. Do you expect the ncaa to have good lawyers or bad ones? Similar to unlimited Healthcare, the lawsuits would bankrupt the ncaa and conferences.
and capped coaches salaries
quote:
we would not be here at this point, I firmly believe.
We are here because NIL is not football related. Players have autonomy off the football field.
I don't understand why this concept is so difficult (a concept which is currently being upheld in courts... not because of scholarship restrictions/not because of coaching salaries/not because of health issues... but because a college/ncaa can't take away a football players right to assembly and speech to endorse a car dealership/lawyer/credit union)
Posted on 12/29/23 at 1:06 pm to meansonny
The NCAA limited the amount of scholarships to 85. The NCAA made them 1 year renewable. Medical Hardship are not mandatory and not rewarded to everyone.
The NCAA made no rules for coaches salaries.
The NCAA made no accommodations for players who were dropped from scholarship while in academic good standing.
The NCAA limited when you could work and scrutinized what you were paid while on scholarship.
They did this while coaches were getting paid millions with no penalty for leaving.
They did this while raking in millions of direct monies and indirect monies from prestige directly attributed to the success of the football program.
They called us “student athletes “ whilst encouraging players to take tailor made curriculums that prepared them for nothing other than being eligible until they became no longer useful. Trusted academic advisors encouraged this. I saw it first hand. I chose a different path, but I came from a family who had experienced college and helped guide me in the right direction, in spite of my trusted athletic academic advisor. Most kids didn’t have that and frankly, a lot could not have hacked real college courses. Which makes the student athlete name even more ironic.
The whole thing was a fricking racket and they kept it under control as long as they could, but the money got bigger and bigger and bigger. Now it’s the fricking wild west and there is no one to blame other than the NCAA and the schools who ran this scam of greed for decades.
Now it sucks for the fans and frankly, I am not sure it’s all that good for a lot of the kids…but it was inevitable.
The NCAA made no rules for coaches salaries.
The NCAA made no accommodations for players who were dropped from scholarship while in academic good standing.
The NCAA limited when you could work and scrutinized what you were paid while on scholarship.
They did this while coaches were getting paid millions with no penalty for leaving.
They did this while raking in millions of direct monies and indirect monies from prestige directly attributed to the success of the football program.
They called us “student athletes “ whilst encouraging players to take tailor made curriculums that prepared them for nothing other than being eligible until they became no longer useful. Trusted academic advisors encouraged this. I saw it first hand. I chose a different path, but I came from a family who had experienced college and helped guide me in the right direction, in spite of my trusted athletic academic advisor. Most kids didn’t have that and frankly, a lot could not have hacked real college courses. Which makes the student athlete name even more ironic.
The whole thing was a fricking racket and they kept it under control as long as they could, but the money got bigger and bigger and bigger. Now it’s the fricking wild west and there is no one to blame other than the NCAA and the schools who ran this scam of greed for decades.
Now it sucks for the fans and frankly, I am not sure it’s all that good for a lot of the kids…but it was inevitable.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 1:30 pm to meansonny
quote:
he entire concept is that they are 2 separate entities not related to one another. It is against NCAA rules to tie "football play" into the NIL contract.
The thinking is they are employees of the university for playing football. NIL collectives are set up as separate LLCs which contract out to the athlete to provide services for it.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 1:48 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
The NCAA limited the amount of scholarships to 85. The NCAA made them 1 year renewable.
Factually, that is incorrect. I think Clemson offered 4 year scholarships. So there is not an ncaa rule preventing a school from that commitment.
The issue is numbers under the 85. If a coach/staff/program wants your spot, they are going to make you give it up (guarantee or not).
quote:
Medical Hardship are not mandatory and not rewarded to everyone.
I don't follow all schools. But Bama and UGA have traditionally handed out medical scholarships like candy. It is good for the student and looks good for the university. I'm curious of you agree with this take.
quote:
The NCAA limited when you could work and scrutinized what you were paid while on scholarship.
They did this while coaches were getting paid millions with no penalty for leaving.
One is an employee and one is not. I'm not sure why you have a disconnect on some obvious facts.
quote:
They did this while raking in millions of direct monies and indirect monies from prestige directly attributed to the success of the football program.
The money is from the viewer/fan. Are you blaming college football for not being professional football? That blame should go to the NFL which refuses to expand their definition of a professional athlete. Why does the university system deserve the finger wagging?
quote:
They called us “student athletes “ whilst encouraging players to take tailor made curriculums that prepared them for nothing other than being eligible until they became no longer useful.
I would call those players stupid. You can argue with me if you like. Nakobe Dean is an engineering major. The student signs up for the classes. Not the staff. If someone else is paying the bill, why not get the most bang for the buck?
quote:
Now it’s the fricking wild west
This where we disagree.
It should have always been the wild west. The NCAA had too much control over the athlete (in regards to what the athlete could do on his/her own to make money). It wasn't constitutional. It took a video game profiting off the likeness of players and paying the NCAA for that licensing right to get us where we are today. It is the player's likeness... not any of your other post... which has created the wild wild west. But that genie should have never been in a bottle in the first place. I know why it was. It required an authoritarian hand to keep it appearing amateur. But it never should have been that way. As I said... even the NFL/teams didn't have that type of control over player's NIL.
This post was edited on 12/29/23 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 12/29/23 at 1:50 pm to Rex Feral
quote:
The thinking
And thats where people on message boards go wrong.
They aren't employees.
They can't be employees (that is an entirely separate can of unintended consequences).
Posted on 12/29/23 at 2:23 pm to meansonny
quote:
Factually, that is incorrect.
The NCAA did not require schools to offer any more than one year, which were renewable. Which means the NCAA and colleges were not guaranteeing a college degree if you stayed in good academic standing. You can attempt to nitpick it all you want, but this is fact.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 2:26 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
I would call those players stupid. You can argue with me if you like. Nakobe Dean is an engineering major. The student signs up for the classes. Not the staff. If someone else is paying the bill, why not get the most bang for the buck?
If every student player were you, I’m sure they would all have Engineering degrees…
Posted on 12/29/23 at 2:36 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
The NCAA did not require schools to offer any more than one year, which were renewable. Which means the NCAA and colleges were not guaranteeing a college degree if you stayed in good academic standing. You can attempt to nitpick it all you want, but this is fact.
Nitpick?
Your words are factually wrong. I don't know even know what difference it makes. It is not relevant to where we are today.
If there is no rule forcing universities to offer 1 year scholarships, then the NCAA isn't responsible for the 1 year scholarships.
When you double-down on fake logic, it makes me laugh. Either 1 year scholarships are forced or they are not.
You ignore the part about 99% of college coaches being on 1 year contracts. Is that the responsibility of the NCAA too because they aren't forcing coaches to be signed to 4 year contracts?
This post was edited on 12/29/23 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 12/29/23 at 2:39 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
If every student player were you, I’m sure they would all have Engineering degrees…
You literally are blaming the universities for athletes accepting crap scholarships.
There is plenty of evidence of college football players not accepting crap scholarships.
You've got some rash on your junk from your college experience and it is tainting your perspective on individual liberties and responsibilities.
See a doctor and get rid of it.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:04 pm to meansonny
Signing on the dotted line of the National Letter of Intent means three things:
You are committed to one year at the university. You do not need to sign an NLI after the first year. The school is required to let you know if your scholarship is being renewed after the first year.
The university is promising to provide an athletic scholarship for that year. The NLI and financial aid package are two separate documents. You will need to sign both. Only Division 1 programs are permitted to offer multi-year athletic aid in an NLI.
Your recruiting journey is over. No other schools can continue to recruit you and you are not permitted to contact coaches at other institutions.
Why only one academic year?
Athletic scholarships are renewable every year at the college’s discretion and the student-athlete is notified annually regarding whether or not the athletic aid has been extended. However, the student-athlete is not required to sign a NLI each year. It is also important to note that the agreement encompasses a full academic year and not only the athletic season.
You are committed to one year at the university. You do not need to sign an NLI after the first year. The school is required to let you know if your scholarship is being renewed after the first year.
The university is promising to provide an athletic scholarship for that year. The NLI and financial aid package are two separate documents. You will need to sign both. Only Division 1 programs are permitted to offer multi-year athletic aid in an NLI.
Your recruiting journey is over. No other schools can continue to recruit you and you are not permitted to contact coaches at other institutions.
Why only one academic year?
Athletic scholarships are renewable every year at the college’s discretion and the student-athlete is notified annually regarding whether or not the athletic aid has been extended. However, the student-athlete is not required to sign a NLI each year. It is also important to note that the agreement encompasses a full academic year and not only the athletic season.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:08 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Why only one academic year?
Clemson was offering 4 year scholarships.
1 year makes sense to me.
If the coach/staff/program doesn't want you, you will become very aware and want out. What good does a 4 year commitment do you if they can break your spirit to get out of it?
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:10 pm to meansonny
I was just showing you that you were wrong
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:13 pm to Peter Buck
And then in 2015, the P5 schools came up with a flimsy deal outside of the NCAA to guarantee 4 years not based on on field performance.
And then, the portal came not too long after. Imagine that?
And then, the portal came not too long after. Imagine that?
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:35 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
I was just showing you that you were wrong
Clemson offered 4 year scholarships.
I don't recall that ever being an ncaa violation.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 3:37 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
And then in 2015, the P5 schools came up with a flimsy deal outside of the NCAA to guarantee 4 years not based on on field performance.
Again... the 4 year scholarship is moot.
If the player wants out, he gets out.
If the team wants out, the player will get the picture and get out.
And it has nothing to do with NIL compensation (which is where this thread started to begin with).
Posted on 12/29/23 at 4:04 pm to meansonny
The portal is a direct result of “processing “ after 2015. The unintended consequences are that now it opened the door for players to use it to bargain for top NIL $$$. So, yes, how we got here has everything to do with it.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 4:08 pm to Peter Buck
BS. Our defensive linemen do not bull rush the passer. They spend more time dancing at the line of scrimmage than they do rushing hard. Don't understand our philosophy...big strong guys getting handled by lesser talent.
Posted on 12/29/23 at 4:15 pm to wizatlanta
I agree that you don’t understand our philosophy
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