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re: Mark Richt's 2 SEC Titles...
Posted on 10/12/15 at 5:53 am to DawgGONIT
Posted on 10/12/15 at 5:53 am to DawgGONIT
quote:
You can use the same measurements for all other teams in college and we are still only behind Bama and LSU, and top 5 in the nation.
Which is an interesting measurement....because we rarely recruit in the top 5 in the nation. (Once maybe in the last 10 years?) Which tells me that our coaches are doing a good job. They are coaching the talent up.
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Posted on 10/12/15 at 7:19 am to DawgGONIT
quote:
Using what round someone was drafted in isn't a good measure. Why not just go with the guys who are in the NFL and not by the draft?
It's a good measure of what the NFL thinks about talent level at a school, but Any comparison could be flawed.
Maybe a starter comparison would prove your point, but we don't know without a deeper look that we may not have the time to do.
A simple number count implies all players are equals, and we know that isn't true on any level. Big diff between 1-53, and I think the draft represents that idea between 1-253.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 5:49 pm to djsdawg
quote:Who cares what they think? The draft is about guessing....that is why I'm using people who made the 53 man roster. If you make the team, then you are good enough. Whether if you start or not is a different story. But again, UGA has some studs in the NFL. I posted that list of current players in the NFL from UGA and a lot of those are starters like Geno Atkins, AJ Green, Moreno before he got hurt, Reshad Jones, Shawn Williams, CLint Boling, David Andrews, Cordy Glenn, Brandon Boykin, Marlon Brown, C Conley, Todd GURLEY, Crowell, Justin Houstin, John Jenkins, D Swann, A Dent, Alec Olgetree, Jarvis Jones, B Rambo, etc. Who cares where these guys are drafted if they are on the 2 deep and a lot of those guys are above avg to NFL stars. Again, talent is there at UGA.
It's a good measure of what the NFL thinks about talent level at a school, but Any comparison could be flawed.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 8:07 pm to DawgGONIT
All talent evals are ultimately educated guessing. Doesnt mean they are worthless. 5 stars out of high school are generally considered better talents, and they prove it moreso than lesser rated guys. Not a coincidence. The same idea applies to NFL prospects.
Besides, My point in the final line that you decided to ignore still stands. There is talent at UGA, but its not elite like you claim it is. We got a few stars and a bunch of backups in the NFL, which just so happens to align with what the draft says. Thats not a coincidence either.
Besides, Our elite talent has been way underutilized at UGA due to injuries, suspensions, and early entrees.
Besides, My point in the final line that you decided to ignore still stands. There is talent at UGA, but its not elite like you claim it is. We got a few stars and a bunch of backups in the NFL, which just so happens to align with what the draft says. Thats not a coincidence either.
Besides, Our elite talent has been way underutilized at UGA due to injuries, suspensions, and early entrees.
This post was edited on 10/12/15 at 8:59 pm
Posted on 10/12/15 at 9:05 pm to djsdawg
You are wanting to use evaluations for talent by draft scouts, high school scouts, etc. I'm saying use actual NFL coaches as the measuring tool. How can you improve upon that? If the coach thinks a player should be on the team, then they must be talented enough.
Using the draft as a measure is a joke. How many busts have been the # 1 pick. By your logic Tom Brady wouldn't grade well since he was a 6th round pick. I assume you are saying J Russell is better than Brady? What about Crowell? He went undrafted, so by your logic you are saying Crowell has no talent.
I listed plenty of UGA starters yet you ignored it.
I guess being 5th in the nation if players in the NFL (1 Miami, 2 Bama, 3 Ohio St, 4 LSU, 5 UGA) is not proof enough of the talent at UGA?
Our 2ndary sucks b/c we kicked all the talent off and Pruitt really is working with less. There was a great post on 24/7 showing all the guys kicked off the team or transferred out of the 2ndary.
Our WR isn't as bad as it looks, but the qb play and play calling isn't helping it out. Most of the guys just don't have experience. Overall as a team, we do have talent and many guys will be in the NFL off this squad, just as usual.
Using the draft as a measure is a joke. How many busts have been the # 1 pick. By your logic Tom Brady wouldn't grade well since he was a 6th round pick. I assume you are saying J Russell is better than Brady? What about Crowell? He went undrafted, so by your logic you are saying Crowell has no talent.
quote:
Maybe a starter comparison would prove your point, but we don't know without a deeper look that we may not have the time to do. - djsdawg
I listed plenty of UGA starters yet you ignored it.
quote:Again not all are starters, but most are starters and the rest get playing time. Also I have left many other UGA guys off this short list just to prove a point of our talent in the NFL is just not backups but are indeed starters and top players at their positions (Aj Green, Justin Houston, Geno Atkins, Todd Gurley). Again, who cares where these players are drafted or not drafted? Proven time and time again, just b/c you are a draft pick or the #1 pick is no guarantee that you will be good enough to make it in the NFL, so using the draft is useless when you can just look at active rosters and see who actually made it instead of those projected to make it (draft).
I posted that list of current players in the NFL from UGA and a lot of those are starters like Geno Atkins, AJ Green, Moreno before he got hurt, Reshad Jones, Shawn Williams, CLint Boling, David Andrews, Cordy Glenn, Brandon Boykin, Marlon Brown, C Conley, Todd GURLEY, Crowell, Justin Houstin, John Jenkins, D Swann, A Dent, Alec Olgetree, Jarvis Jones, B Rambo, etc.
quote:
There is talent at UGA, but its not what you claim it is.
I guess being 5th in the nation if players in the NFL (1 Miami, 2 Bama, 3 Ohio St, 4 LSU, 5 UGA) is not proof enough of the talent at UGA?
Our 2ndary sucks b/c we kicked all the talent off and Pruitt really is working with less. There was a great post on 24/7 showing all the guys kicked off the team or transferred out of the 2ndary.
Our WR isn't as bad as it looks, but the qb play and play calling isn't helping it out. Most of the guys just don't have experience. Overall as a team, we do have talent and many guys will be in the NFL off this squad, just as usual.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 9:39 pm to DawgGONIT
Your cherry picking of my points is becoming legendary.
Tom Brady is a huge exception to the rule. Just because a 3 star can make it big and a 5 star can flop doesnt mean 3 stars are generally better than a 5 stars as a whole. Same point applies to the NFL draft. This logic is sound. I already said a draft isnt perfect just like recruiting isnt, but that doesnt mean it isnt a meaningful tool for a comparison of talent level. Your continued insistence on doing a simple roster # comparison has its share of flaws as well, which you refuse to acknowledge.
I am talking about a starter comparison with other teams, and there has been nothing to ignore on that front. Again, big difference between #1 on a roster and #53, and you have yet to cherry pick this to comment on.
Not many starters on the list you have provided for UGA:
- Green and Gurley are our best O talents, but both had their final 2 seasons cut short, and both left early.
- Houston and Tree are our best D talents and both also had suspension/injury shortened careers and both left early.
- We only got 2 seasons out of moreno and 1 out of Crowell.
- We only got 2 seasons out of Jarvis Jones.
All of this proves we havent had the best of luck in regards to being able to utilize our best talents. Our current best O talents share similarities with the above group:
- Mitchell had 2 wasted seasons with injury.
- Chubb may never play at UGA again.
Tom Brady is a huge exception to the rule. Just because a 3 star can make it big and a 5 star can flop doesnt mean 3 stars are generally better than a 5 stars as a whole. Same point applies to the NFL draft. This logic is sound. I already said a draft isnt perfect just like recruiting isnt, but that doesnt mean it isnt a meaningful tool for a comparison of talent level. Your continued insistence on doing a simple roster # comparison has its share of flaws as well, which you refuse to acknowledge.
I am talking about a starter comparison with other teams, and there has been nothing to ignore on that front. Again, big difference between #1 on a roster and #53, and you have yet to cherry pick this to comment on.
Not many starters on the list you have provided for UGA:
- Green and Gurley are our best O talents, but both had their final 2 seasons cut short, and both left early.
- Houston and Tree are our best D talents and both also had suspension/injury shortened careers and both left early.
- We only got 2 seasons out of moreno and 1 out of Crowell.
- We only got 2 seasons out of Jarvis Jones.
All of this proves we havent had the best of luck in regards to being able to utilize our best talents. Our current best O talents share similarities with the above group:
- Mitchell had 2 wasted seasons with injury.
- Chubb may never play at UGA again.
This post was edited on 10/12/15 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 10/12/15 at 9:54 pm to djsdawg
How will you decide who is #1 on a roster and #53 on a roster? What does that even mean? I think you have no freakin clue. Obviously the qb is the #1 spot on the NFL roster. #53 is punter.
I like how you ignored our Oline guys. Plus throw in Theus and Pyke. Boykin, Shawn Williams, Conley, Moreno, etc is plenty of talent. If we couldn't do anything with Murray and Gurley, we sure wasn't going to with mason at the helm. Houston and Tree were great, but that whole team was filed with talent in the NFL so losing them shouldn't of matter and it was only for a few games. Another blame for Richt on red shirting Moreno so you can't even use that.
Jarvis Jones went to USC and stayed in college for 4 years what else could he have done besides signing with UGA orginally? 
With all these uga players in the NFL you can't spin it that UGA doesn't produce talent. UGA produces NFL talent better that most other college teams. Yet we can't get shite done with Richt.
I like how you ignored our Oline guys. Plus throw in Theus and Pyke. Boykin, Shawn Williams, Conley, Moreno, etc is plenty of talent. If we couldn't do anything with Murray and Gurley, we sure wasn't going to with mason at the helm. Houston and Tree were great, but that whole team was filed with talent in the NFL so losing them shouldn't of matter and it was only for a few games. Another blame for Richt on red shirting Moreno so you can't even use that.
Jarvis Jones went to USC and stayed in college for 4 years what else could he have done besides signing with UGA orginally? With all these uga players in the NFL you can't spin it that UGA doesn't produce talent. UGA produces NFL talent better that most other college teams. Yet we can't get shite done with Richt.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 8:59 pm to DawgGONIT
How? Do you have a hard time telling who the best are on the UGA FB team? Its generally not that hard with minimal thinking:
- 1st stringers will be 1-22 with the stars in the top 5-10.
- 2nd stringers will be 23-44.
- 3rd stringers are gonna be 45-53.
- Practice squad will be 54-63.
Seeing your comment about Jarvis, it appears that the point went over your head, but here it is:
- All of the guys I listed played for under 3 years, which means UGA couldnt fully benefit from having them come through the program.
- In other words, the highest quality was underutilized at UGA often through no fault of our own, and thats not an issue at other schools. Hard to win BIG when you studs arent playing 40+ games for your school.
Finally, I never said UGA doesnt produce talent. We clearly have a lot of quantity, but the overall quality from top to bottom is less than you claim.
- Skill wise, Guys like Boykin, Rambo, Williams, and Conley, Marlon are backups.
- OL wise, I believe we have 3 NFL starters with a backup currently starting for the Pats because the starter is out. Theus and Pyke certainly dont seem like elite prospects if you are watching them this year.
- 1st stringers will be 1-22 with the stars in the top 5-10.
- 2nd stringers will be 23-44.
- 3rd stringers are gonna be 45-53.
- Practice squad will be 54-63.
Seeing your comment about Jarvis, it appears that the point went over your head, but here it is:
- All of the guys I listed played for under 3 years, which means UGA couldnt fully benefit from having them come through the program.
- In other words, the highest quality was underutilized at UGA often through no fault of our own, and thats not an issue at other schools. Hard to win BIG when you studs arent playing 40+ games for your school.
Finally, I never said UGA doesnt produce talent. We clearly have a lot of quantity, but the overall quality from top to bottom is less than you claim.
- Skill wise, Guys like Boykin, Rambo, Williams, and Conley, Marlon are backups.
- OL wise, I believe we have 3 NFL starters with a backup currently starting for the Pats because the starter is out. Theus and Pyke certainly dont seem like elite prospects if you are watching them this year.
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 9:02 pm
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