Started By
Message

re: GA HB 757 - Should Deal sign it?

Posted on 3/24/16 at 2:43 pm to
Posted by RedPants
GA
Member since Jan 2013
5413 posts
Posted on 3/24/16 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

Hypothetical situation for those of you saying this bill is bad, and that pastors should be forced by the government to conduct a ceremony for a gay couple.


Your response is exactly why the senators tacked their stupid RFRA bill on to the PPA. They know most people don't closely follow state politics, and when the public got wind of HB757, they'd use that part as a wedge issue that made it hard to argue against.
Posted by LewDawg
Member since May 2009
75242 posts
Posted on 3/24/16 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

while they wear shirts and other paraphanelia that slurs gay people and condemns them to hell.
I bet that minister wouldn't marry a gay couple if they were wearing shirts depicting 14 guys blowing 19 guys.
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 3/24/16 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

He feels as if he is validating something that he feels is wrong

He also might feel that mixed race couples are "wrong". Again, feeling that something is wrong and selectively deciding who is/isn't wrong is really not under the purview of the baker at that point. If the couple hasn't done anything specifically to merit refusal of service and is just another customer, I don't see where they have legal standing to refuse service nor should they.

quote:

Marriage is considered a religious act, right

I believe it is currently both a religious act and a government sanctioned 'benefit'. Decoupling the 2 would really help to avoid a lot of the trouble that so many people seem to have in my opinion *if* the issue is truly based on religious beliefs. The funny thing is, the cake doesn't have anything to do with the marriage... by the time the cake shows up, the marriage has happened. The cake is part of the reception, a celebration following the event. If they were making crackers for commune, maybe I can see it as it's a good that's used during a religious ceremony. Even still, that's a stretch. Ultimately, there just isn't any religious act tied to the process of baking a cake (unless it has to be Kosher?) and baking one for a gay couple or an interracial couple shouldn't be any different than baking one for a white heterosexual couple.

quote:

I would hardly say not baking someone a cake is treating them horribly

I actually agree with you, and while I'm not a huge fan of the law suit (I personally would have just done business with someone else and then depending on how they handled it would have either let it slide or made it my personal mission to shite on their business in other ways), I understand the idea of legal precedent as well. Everything starts somewhere. Had the GA Legislature not taken a giant shite on this bill and moved it from the PPA (a very valid protection that I think has merit) and tried to extend that to individuals who are taking their religious beliefs and imposing them on others rights, I think the bill passes without all the hullabaloo and the right protections are given to the right people. But as with any bill that gets proposed, by the time it makes it through that shite show, it rarely matches up with the original intent.
Posted by baconwaffle
Houston
Member since Jan 2013
589 posts
Posted on 3/24/16 at 6:27 pm to
Another angle that nobody is talking about is that this bill doesn't even to pretend to extend so-called "religious liberty" to all faiths. It is geared at placating - SPECIFICALLY - evangelical protestant zealots. Regardless of whether the substance of the bill is constitutional or not, legislation that is designed to help a particular religious group (rather than all religious groups) is unconstitutional. If I were a Norse pagan, I damn well would expect the GA legislature to allow me to commit murder to further my beliefs of clan war and ritual human sacrifice to my patron god. All hail Tyr, bringer or destruction.
Posted by GeorgiaFlyer
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2014
1618 posts
Posted on 3/24/16 at 8:08 pm to
The bill is bull crap and should no way be signed
Posted by Broncothor
Member since Jul 2014
3050 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 7:54 am to
nm
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:09 pm
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
49262 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:13 am to
Sexual orientation isn't a choice, people really are born that way.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:46 am to
quote:

As far as being a commie, far from it. I'm about as fiscally conservative as it gets.


Wrong. You most certainly are a commie.

Not only are you arguing against private property rights (the absolute bedrock of freedom), but you’re following the commie playbook to the letter and trying to redefine private businesses as public services.

And as is typical with most commies, you also appear to be completely illiterate on the subject of economics.

A “fiscal conservative” as you refer to yourself, would not only be disgusted by the violations of the right to contract with whoever you want that you suggest but would also realize that a free market and the incentives of profit are the solution to the “problem” here…. and that the “problem” is only and always made worse by the introduction of clumsy governmental busybody meddling.

Eat shite commie.
Posted by S1C EM
Athens, GA
Member since Nov 2007
11585 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Sexual orientation isn't a choice, people really are born that way.


I'm relatively certain that there is a mix of both. I know people who were definitely born the way they are. I know others who sought companionship within their own sex because the opposite sex never seemed to accept them or show interest in a relationship.

As for those born that way, you can look at the human race as to why. Consider all of the things we've done over centuries that have affected our gene pool, i.e. incest, exposure to various elements and environmental contaminants. Have you ever researched BPA and what it actually does in relation to human physiology (you know, that chemical we've been putting into plastic for years and only recently figured out it was bad)?

Crazy stuff...and humans have themselves to blame.
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
49262 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:54 am to
You have no idea what a communist do you? Sorry, but you can't use the same argument people in the 50's used to deny blacks entrance.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:56 am to
quote:

I'm genuinely asking...what ways could/should the CRA be amended? I casually get what that act did, but my question is what way would it be updated to reflect modern times?

In a nutshell......Part of the CRA obviously did good. Because it took power away from governments. But parts of the CRA are unconstitutional and evil. Because it gave even MORE centralized power to the government allowing for control of private property and manipulation of personal choice and free will.

Beyond that, as usual the government never ever solves the problem they set out to solve. In the real world and not politician fantasy world, trying to force racial harmony only makes the problem worse. Period.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:57 am to
quote:

You have no idea what a communist do you? Sorry, but you can't use the same argument people in the 50's used to deny blacks entrance.

Go sit at the kids table. Adults are talking. Thanks.
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
49262 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 8:57 am to
What? Dude it's no different then being straight, people can't help to who their attracted to. It goes the same way with standards of dating, a girl some guy may find ugly another may find hot. Everyone has different standards and it's no different then orientation
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 9:55 am to
As usual, you struggle with the idea that government entities are tasked with the job of protecting the liberties of all citizens. In your "non-commie" world, police have no power to prevent murder because you did it on your property and "their badge and costume" don't change your rights to do as you wish on your property.

I do not argue that the business should be providing their services free of charge, because they "belong" to all, simply that access to said services if one is able to afford them is something that should be available. Therein lies the difference between "actual communism" and the wild wild west that you seem to so deeply cherish.

Fiscally conservative does not mean socially unconscious.

You are right about one thing. Adults are talking. You seem to have been left out of that particular group of individuals though. That or you are 875 years old and expecting that medieval property rights should still apply... except you don't adhere to the idea of monarchic rule which would have applied then as well. Either way, sit down Sally, and eat your fricking pudding.


ETA: Since you seem to struggle with definitions so much:

fis·cal
'fisk(?)l/
adjective
adjective: fiscal
1.
of or relating to government revenue, especially taxes.
"monetary and fiscal policy"
synonyms: budgetary; More

nounarchaic
noun: fiscal; plural noun: fiscals
1.
a legal or treasury official in some countries.
Origin

mid 16th century: from French, or from Latin fiscalis, from fiscus ‘purse, treasury’ (see fisc).
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 10:19 am
Posted by fibonaccisquared
The mystical waters of the Hooch
Member since Dec 2011
16898 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 10:15 am to
While it may be a mix... I will say that very few people knowingly make their lives more difficult simply on a whim. I would say the *vast* majority of homosexual individuals are at least in some way pre-wired that way. If I polled those that I know (which I've not outright done, but some have shared their stories) I would be willing to wager it's more than 90% were aware of their orientation by age 11-14... around the age most boys and girls are starting to find the opposite less "gross" and more "curiously intriguing". That's a hell of an early age to start affixing "choice" and then penalizing against it.

Interestingly, homosexual behavior is not limited to the human population... do penguins and giraffes have themselves to blame as well? LINK
Was BPA to blame when they were doing this hundreds of years ago?

The funny thing is, by their very nature, they can't produce offspring. So if it's a genetic condition, it's one that continues to occur and at the same time can't be passed on without a) SCIENCE! or b) having a heterosexual interaction.

A fancy restaurant can deny me the ability to dine there because I wore blue jeans and a t-shirt. That's fine, because I can change my jeans and t-shirt, come back in a suit and we're all set. Expecting someone to change the fabric of who they are in order to gain admittance is simply illogical. I agree with the need to protect religious beliefs, particularly clergy, but extending religious freedoms to non-religious acts is where I draw the line. If it's ok to deny service because of religious preferences, is it also ok to refuse to pay taxes because my church believes in only paying tithe to the church and does not recognize any governmental authority to tax? Of course not...

The same cake baker would be up in arms had they gone to purchase their supplies for their work but were told *no* because they make confections, which in turn feed the obesity problem in the US. What if all suppliers then took that stance? It was his choice to go into the cake baking business... should he have to change his business to a Whole Foods? Equal protection only exists when *everyone* is given the same rights, otherwise it's simply stacking the deck.

The bill is not designed to protect the interests of Jews, Muslims, etc, but that doesn't seem to matter to many. As a matter of fact, our state legislature starts out with required *Christian* prayer/service. But we don't have an official religion...
Posted by AlaCowboy
North Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
6944 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 11:02 am to
Deal should veto this. If it becomes law there will be numerous lawsuits to challenge it and ultimately the Supreme Court will invalidate the law. Georgia will have spent a couple of million in legal fees for nothing. Idiot Republican politicians pass these ridiculous laws simply for the votes of dummies.
Posted by S1C EM
Athens, GA
Member since Nov 2007
11585 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 11:21 am to
And again, I know people who fit into both. Are you going to tell me those who identify that way without a natural inkling to are wrong about themselves, based on their own stories?

As for animals, we can postulate that they have engaged in such behaviors for centuries, but we don't know that. There's also a difference in animals driven by instinct (who may have other factors involved) and human beings. And yes, in modern decades, centuries, etc, animals are not immune to environmental factors and influences. BPA, for instance, affects the body as a synthetic ESTROGEN. Think about that.
Posted by Broncothor
Member since Jul 2014
3050 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 12:00 pm to
nm.
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 12:08 pm
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
32855 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

I know people who fit into both. Are you going to tell me those who identify that way without a natural inkling to are wrong about themselves, based on their own stories?


Did they personally tell you they made themselves all of a sudden become sexually attracted to the same sex? That seems hard to believe because Attraction is instinctual as in You like what you like. It was more likely your friendd finally succumbed to a reality that they were gay after years of denial for reasons of fear and guilt.
This post was edited on 3/25/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
58913 posts
Posted on 3/25/16 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

He also might feel that mixed race couples are "wrong".


Big difference. This isn't about feelings. This is clearly spelled out in the Bible. But, my fault for the misunderstanding. I used the word feeling.

quote:

If the couple hasn't done anything specifically to merit refusal of service and is just another customer, I don't see where they have legal standing to refuse service nor should they.



As I said...I agree. If you don't refuse service to a lier, cheater etc because of sin, why single out the one group. I do agree....however there is a part of me that says a person should not be forced to participate in any way with something they view as immoral.

For instance....Muslims find it an offense worthy of death to depict Mohammed through drawing, etc. If I walked into a bakery I knew was owned by a Muslim and requested a cake with a drawing of Mohammed on it, should he be forced to make that cake?

first pageprev pagePage 4 of 10Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow SECRant for SEC Football News
Follow us on Twitter and Facebook to get the latest updates on SEC Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitter