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re: Cops are Heros and they protect us.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:11 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:11 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Then you get this, where the cops probably should have killed the guy, but didn't.
In Athens not too long ago...
LINK /
He'll be sentenced to ten years, but he'll serve 2. Because he won't be granted bail, and his trial will take 18 months, that will be considered time served and he'll be out 6 months after conviction.
In Athens not too long ago...
quote:
An Athens-Clarke County police officer was recovering at home Monday, a day after being shot while responding to a domestic incident.
Officers Michael Ward and John Jennings were dispatched about noon Sunday to the Fairways at Jennings Mill apartments in Athens, where James M. Marcantonio was banging on a door and trying to enter an apartment, police said in a news release.
After being warned that he was trespassing, Marcantonio became combative and began struggling with the two officers, police said.
According to police, the suspect attempted to take Ward’s firearm from its holster during the struggle, and was able to fire one shot through the holster, hitting Ward.
Ward and Jennings then used OC spray on the suspect, and were able to handcuff him and take him into custody.
Ward was treated for the gunshot wound at a local hospital and released, but will require additional medical care, police said.
Marcantonio was charged with aggravated assault on a police officer.
LINK /
He'll be sentenced to ten years, but he'll serve 2. Because he won't be granted bail, and his trial will take 18 months, that will be considered time served and he'll be out 6 months after conviction.
1
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:12 pm to HellRaisingDawg
And I forgot to note that you failed to add a qualifier to cops. Of that 27, you automatically presume that all were killed without provacation.
Your bias is as big as mine, I'll add...but I won't be surprised when the cops try to frick me over at some point. Never have been. I expect it, and treat every encounter with this in mind.
Your bias is as big as mine, I'll add...but I won't be surprised when the cops try to frick me over at some point. Never have been. I expect it, and treat every encounter with this in mind.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:17 pm to deeprig9
So, we automatically believe the cops? That is part of the problem, rig. I'll never claim that there are no justifiable actions by officers, but the major problem we have in this country is that we the goddamn people give waaaay too much weight to officer testimony.
Get ticketed for running a stop sign that you didn't run, but have no evidence that you did not, go to court, and see who wins.
If that guy in SC hadn't video recorded this incident, this homicide would have been considered "justifiable". It's that easy. Happens all the time. Rah rah rah.
The frat mentality, and their cheering section are pushing us down a dangerous path...
Get ticketed for running a stop sign that you didn't run, but have no evidence that you did not, go to court, and see who wins.
If that guy in SC hadn't video recorded this incident, this homicide would have been considered "justifiable". It's that easy. Happens all the time. Rah rah rah.
The frat mentality, and their cheering section are pushing us down a dangerous path...
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:20 pm to HellRaisingDawg
I do think you confuse not thinking cops are the scum of the earth with being 'in their cheering section.'
Posted on 4/10/15 at 5:54 pm to HellRaisingDawg
quote:
but the major problem we have in this country is that we the goddamn people give waaaay too much weight to officer testimony.
Not really.
Two points.
1: On a scale of 1 to 10, people give cops about a 6 on the credibility scale. People give crackheads and multiple violent offenders and/or gang members and/or drug dealers a 3 on the same scale. It's not that people think cops are all upstanding trustworthy individuals, it's that the testimony of the defendent is usually even more worthless.
2: I was on a jury in Athens last year, drug trafficking case. Dude was guilty as a motherfricker. But we voted Not Guilty because we hate cops and drugs should be legal.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 6:16 pm to deeprig9
I was on a jury where the guy was charged with possession of crack cocaine with intent to distribute.
A female prosecutor was first up and she said the guy had 3 grams of crack. Then a cop testified that the guy had 1.4 grams of crack. Then someone from the drug lab testified that they received .6 grams of crack. The cops said that they found the crack after stopping the defendant for a burned-out tail light and crack was visible next to the door seal when the defendant opened his car door.
The defendant was black. The jury was mixed race with half white. I am proud that we found the defendant not guilty of intent to sale and not guilty of possession. No one for the State was credible.
A female prosecutor was first up and she said the guy had 3 grams of crack. Then a cop testified that the guy had 1.4 grams of crack. Then someone from the drug lab testified that they received .6 grams of crack. The cops said that they found the crack after stopping the defendant for a burned-out tail light and crack was visible next to the door seal when the defendant opened his car door.
The defendant was black. The jury was mixed race with half white. I am proud that we found the defendant not guilty of intent to sale and not guilty of possession. No one for the State was credible.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 7:10 pm to Whiznot
quote:
The defendant was black. The jury was mixed race with half white. I am proud that we found the defendant not guilty of intent to sale and not guilty of possession. No one for the State was credible.
Credit to that jury. How many other juries would have packed him up and sent him away...feel free to speculate whilst knowing where my speculation leads.
The fact is, juries hold the power...the power of nullification is real, but largely unknown...and explicitly forbidden to be discussed during trial. Juries are the key to ridding ourselves of bad law. But you have to seat a jury, and most of those sat will "rah rah"...
Nullification by jury is actually EXPLICITLY encoded into the State Constitution of Georgia, one of the few (if not the only) state(s) to do so...
Posted on 4/10/15 at 7:13 pm to TMDawg
quote:
I do think you confuse not thinking cops are the scum of the earth with being 'in their cheering section.'
I absolutely do not. I merely think those who don't think that cops, in general, are the scum of the earth are deeply misinformed, and this leads to the exact same situations we get with those who are in the cheering section.
It is "us against them". They believe that. You should as well.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 7:51 pm to HellRaisingDawg
At the end of spring quarter 1970 I left UGA with a fellow student and headed for Ft. Lauderdale to work construction and live on the beach. We rented a place to stay and, later, a local guy who worked with us moved in to share expenses. We all smoked pot and chased yankee girls every night.
The local dude got fired from the construction job and joined the Ft. Lauderdale police force. Every night when he got off work he'd come back to the apartment and laughingly tell stories about all the heads that he and the other cops had cracked that day. The dude, whose name was Wayne, seemed normal before he became a cop but he turned into a sadistic pig after one week on the force.
Group think is a terrible thing. A similar type of bad behavior is observed in fraternities. It seems that whenever there is a closely connected group the collective behavior mimics that of whoever is the drunkest, craziest or stupidest.
The local dude got fired from the construction job and joined the Ft. Lauderdale police force. Every night when he got off work he'd come back to the apartment and laughingly tell stories about all the heads that he and the other cops had cracked that day. The dude, whose name was Wayne, seemed normal before he became a cop but he turned into a sadistic pig after one week on the force.
Group think is a terrible thing. A similar type of bad behavior is observed in fraternities. It seems that whenever there is a closely connected group the collective behavior mimics that of whoever is the drunkest, craziest or stupidest.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 10:45 pm to Whiznot
quote:
It seems that whenever there is a closely connected group the collective behavior mimics that of whoever is the drunkest, craziest or stupidest.
Absolutely. Whatever the alphas do, so do the rest.
We have a problem, and only the blindest amongst us cannot see this...
Posted on 4/11/15 at 1:49 am to HellRaisingDawg
quote:
We have a problem,
There is no doubt.
Starting salary for Valdosta police is ~33K a year or ~16 an hour, ~twice minimum. And they get guns and can shoot.
Feel good?
I buy into the us vs them culture issue, it exists and it is almost understandable in today's society. Combine that with the stock that will be attracted to that level of pay and then you have what we have.
Double/triple the pay (starting) and you will start to get intelligent people that are willing to risk their lives every day for no thanks from John Q. Keep the pay at essentially bottom rung and you will get bottom rung. In highly intense, life and death decision making situations, I am frankly surprised it is not worse.
As a side note, I have been involved with the police from having guns drawn situations to situations where I needed their help. In my personal review of those experiences, on the negative side of that spectrum it was always my bad although a bit rough at times, and in areas of my need they were always respectful and helpful.
For what it is worth.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 7:38 am to HellRaisingDawg
quote:And what does that prove? I said innocent people. I'm sure police officers killed more than 27....but many of those would be in the commission of a crime. I would say a prime example of a police officer killing an innocent victim would be in the case of the South Carolina thing. I would also venture to guess that that is a rare occurrence.
ou'd do well not to make that bet, if these stats are any indication: 27 vs indeterminate amount (~400)
You know...you can call them pigs, oinkers and be totally disrespectful towards them...but next time your car is stolen, home is broken into or loved one is raped....then don't call the police.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 10:11 am to DawgsLife
quote:
then don't call the police.
I never have. But that's part of the problem, isn't it? That the police are my only option in your scenarios. There is no free market in the protection racket. It's a government monopoly. Communism at it's finest.
And the Conservatives dig it the most. Rah rah rah.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 10:16 am to WhopperDawg
Whopper, you could do that, I suppose. Or, you could let the free market work for protection. Why would someone as smart as yourself realize that socialized medicine will lead to higher cost, larger disconnect, longer waits, poorer service, etc. but not draw the same conclusion about socialized protection?
I know this is a swerve, but there it is.
I know this is a swerve, but there it is.
This post was edited on 4/11/15 at 10:18 am
Posted on 4/11/15 at 10:28 am to WhopperDawg
quote:
As a side note, I have been involved with the police from having guns drawn situations to situations where I needed their help. In my personal review of those experiences, on the negative side of that spectrum it was always my bad although a bit rough at times, and in areas of my need they were always respectful and helpful.
For what it is worth.
My review of my situations:
I was always treated with respect so long as I "played ball", that is, didn't invoke any of my rights. The minute I stood up for myself in voluntary interaction, the disconnect deepened, and generally led to a charge being fabricated, which would eventually be tossed pretrial or via jury exoneration.
When I was 17, I had two cops draw down on me, simply because I walked in my sister's apartment (nosy neighbor thought that my long-haired self was a burglar.) I was cuffed, stuffed, threatened, manhandled, cussed, and eventually lectured when they realized that I had done nothing wrong. That's the mentality. No apology for their bad....you get lectured. YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELF, BOY.
Nah. I can respect an individual without the badge, but in that badge you get no respect. Us against them. All day.
Posted on 4/12/15 at 12:51 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Never ending police murders.
Unarmed black man gets protected to death by idiot 73 year-old reserve deputy hero who said that he thought his gun was a taser.
LINK
Unarmed black man gets protected to death by idiot 73 year-old reserve deputy hero who said that he thought his gun was a taser.
LINK
This post was edited on 4/12/15 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 4/12/15 at 1:39 pm to Whiznot
quote:
Unarmed black man gets protected to death by idiot 73 year-old reserve deputy hero who said that he thought his gun was a taser.
"I'm losing my breath!"
"frick your breath!"
Compassion. This is it, y'all!
The Hour of Chaos
Posted on 4/12/15 at 4:06 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Has anyone ever had a good experience with a cop? I've only been stopped in two routine traffic violations and even then, they were both total counts about it. I'd hate to get caught in a situation that actually mattered.
Posted on 4/12/15 at 4:56 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
but many of those would be in the commission of a crime.
That whole "presumed innocent until proven guilty" is kind of a wrinkle in that theory, though.
quote:
I would also venture to guess that that is a rare occurrence.
We respectfully disagree.
-22 kids in Waco, Texas
Posted on 4/12/15 at 6:29 pm to FinleyStreet
I have. I've gotten pulled more than a few times and been given a warning.
In fact, I got pulled over by a cop in Loganville while at UGA that let me off with a beer in the car my friend was drinking. They pulled us and a car with some girls in it...they bitched so much the cops wrote them up and let us go. Actually told us to throw the bottle in the bushes because we'd get busted if a trooper caught us.
Point is, I'm of the school of thought that you be polite and not get uppity with the cops...it's just dumb because they have the monopoly of force. Also, 9 out of 10 cops are just normal guys out trying to earn a living...they just have badges, guns and can put you in jail.
In fact, I got pulled over by a cop in Loganville while at UGA that let me off with a beer in the car my friend was drinking. They pulled us and a car with some girls in it...they bitched so much the cops wrote them up and let us go. Actually told us to throw the bottle in the bushes because we'd get busted if a trooper caught us.
Point is, I'm of the school of thought that you be polite and not get uppity with the cops...it's just dumb because they have the monopoly of force. Also, 9 out of 10 cops are just normal guys out trying to earn a living...they just have badges, guns and can put you in jail.
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