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Sumlin's decisiveness
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:49 pm
A lot of people on this site and others seem to have it in their mind Sumlin isn't decisive or isn't willing to change philosophies. This is by far the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
That was my biggest complaint with both Sherman and Fran.
Fran got butt fricked by Urban Myer one fricking game and decided to change his offensive philosophy. In doing so, he absolutely refused to change for the remainder of his time at A&M. Further, he was the worst about coaching changes. And when he did make a change, he hired a bunch of has beens and paid them quality salaries as if they were frickin Chad Morris or some shite.
Fans hated Fran because not only did he lose but he refused to make changes. Then, came Sherman. When Sherman first got here, many were uninspired by the hire, but we gave him a chance. We liked his switch to a spread offensive philosophy, even if it was more pro style / west coast. People were impressed with how he put his talent on the field - a lot of people don't remember how he put Tanny as WR the first year. I remember seeing 4-wide sets with Sherman's offense where we had a backup QB, two running backs, and one actual receiver lined up as wide receivers. Then, it became apparent Sherman needed to find a better OC after he decided to call plays for himself. It also became VERY apparent to everyone except Sherman that he needed to get our players into better shape. He had been practicing a technique he used in the pros where he didn't work his players to an extreme level in practice so they could remain healthy. The problem is our players were not professionals, and didn't maintain their athleticism. This bit Sherman in the arse because we consistently lost games in the second half for at least 2 years, and it was painfully obvious after the 2010 season. further, when it was obvious Sherman needed to make a change in a coordinator, he consistently waited at least 1 year too late. If I recall the Tim Deruyter hire was 2 years after everyone was calling for change. Basically, it was worse than we have right now on offense, and Sherman waited another year before making a change
Sumlin has made the changes I expected at the end of every season. When we needed to change offensively because of personnel, he has done so. When we needed to place emphasis in certain areas due to lingering problems, he has done so. He's just not going to call plays. He manages and brings in the talent. I have always been happy with his willingness to change over our past regimes
That was my biggest complaint with both Sherman and Fran.
Fran got butt fricked by Urban Myer one fricking game and decided to change his offensive philosophy. In doing so, he absolutely refused to change for the remainder of his time at A&M. Further, he was the worst about coaching changes. And when he did make a change, he hired a bunch of has beens and paid them quality salaries as if they were frickin Chad Morris or some shite.
Fans hated Fran because not only did he lose but he refused to make changes. Then, came Sherman. When Sherman first got here, many were uninspired by the hire, but we gave him a chance. We liked his switch to a spread offensive philosophy, even if it was more pro style / west coast. People were impressed with how he put his talent on the field - a lot of people don't remember how he put Tanny as WR the first year. I remember seeing 4-wide sets with Sherman's offense where we had a backup QB, two running backs, and one actual receiver lined up as wide receivers. Then, it became apparent Sherman needed to find a better OC after he decided to call plays for himself. It also became VERY apparent to everyone except Sherman that he needed to get our players into better shape. He had been practicing a technique he used in the pros where he didn't work his players to an extreme level in practice so they could remain healthy. The problem is our players were not professionals, and didn't maintain their athleticism. This bit Sherman in the arse because we consistently lost games in the second half for at least 2 years, and it was painfully obvious after the 2010 season. further, when it was obvious Sherman needed to make a change in a coordinator, he consistently waited at least 1 year too late. If I recall the Tim Deruyter hire was 2 years after everyone was calling for change. Basically, it was worse than we have right now on offense, and Sherman waited another year before making a change
Sumlin has made the changes I expected at the end of every season. When we needed to change offensively because of personnel, he has done so. When we needed to place emphasis in certain areas due to lingering problems, he has done so. He's just not going to call plays. He manages and brings in the talent. I have always been happy with his willingness to change over our past regimes
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Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:01 pm to Warrior Poet
Sumlin threw away 2014 by keeping Snyder a year too long and 2015 by keeping Spav too long. Both would have been 10 win teams had the moves been made when most realized they needed to be made. He still has McKinney on his staff which is incredibly puzzling. Four years in and Sumlin still doesn't know what he wants to run, and it's becoming obvious Tia is because he simply doesn't know enough about offense to know what he wants. He has benefited from two of the most brilliant playcallers in CFB serving as his OCs during his first five years as a HC and was able to gain this undue reputation as an offensive guru.
Your argument essentially boils down to "Well, he's better than Fran and Sherman". I would argue that he is an inferior Xs and Os and talent evaluator than Sherman, but fine, lets say he is clearly superior to both. That still leaves a TON of room for criticism and improvement. Sumlin isn't half the coach Sherrill was and isn't an expert at anything like RC was. We can do better. We have done better.
Your argument essentially boils down to "Well, he's better than Fran and Sherman". I would argue that he is an inferior Xs and Os and talent evaluator than Sherman, but fine, lets say he is clearly superior to both. That still leaves a TON of room for criticism and improvement. Sumlin isn't half the coach Sherrill was and isn't an expert at anything like RC was. We can do better. We have done better.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:12 pm to Roger Klarvin
Snyder fielded a damn good defense in 2012 when no one expected him to. We were young in 2013 and everyone saw how we were starting true freshmen and inferior talent in the D line. We got some elite recruits and this bought Snyder another year in everyone's eyes. Very few were callin for him to be fired in 2013. In 2014, after it was clear we needed to change our philosophy, Sumlin made his move and brought in a goat. He made one of the best coordinator hires of any CFB school in the past decade.
2014 Spav was blamed on a QB who fell apart after blowing people away against South Carolina. Then, when we went to Allen, it was clear he wasn't ready solely based on familiarity with our Syatem. Spav changed his offensive style to fit KA. People did not know what to mak pe out of our offensive problems in 2014. Again, not many were calling for Spav to be fired. It was all about the defense getting fixed.
McKinney is the only puzzling retention. But McKinney is an excellent recruiter, and Sumlin places a high price for recruiters.
My argument is not Sumlin is better than Fran/Sherman. My argument is Sumlin is more willing to change than any of our previous coaches, yet people seem to criticize him for it unexplainably. Hell, RC was just as stubborn as those guys. He didn't make changes to his offense until he was almost out the door.
2014 Spav was blamed on a QB who fell apart after blowing people away against South Carolina. Then, when we went to Allen, it was clear he wasn't ready solely based on familiarity with our Syatem. Spav changed his offensive style to fit KA. People did not know what to mak pe out of our offensive problems in 2014. Again, not many were calling for Spav to be fired. It was all about the defense getting fixed.
McKinney is the only puzzling retention. But McKinney is an excellent recruiter, and Sumlin places a high price for recruiters.
My argument is not Sumlin is better than Fran/Sherman. My argument is Sumlin is more willing to change than any of our previous coaches, yet people seem to criticize him for it unexplainably. Hell, RC was just as stubborn as those guys. He didn't make changes to his offense until he was almost out the door.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:29 pm to Warrior Poet
The 2012 defense was average, people remember it more fondly because our offense made the scoring gap in many games so wide. It was aided by teams having to go into full blown comeback mode so often as well.
The 2013 defense was unforgivably awful. Chavis could take the defense from Katy High School and not field a defense that bad. It was simply a firable offense, no way around it. Even Billy Liucci was surprised Snyder wasn't fired. I have no idea what you are remembering, but there was outrage when he was retained. The post-Duke Snyder meltdown on TA was top notch. As for Chavis, great as he was he contacted Sumlin and just fell into our lap because he wanted out at LSU.
It was evident last year Spav was playing checkers while DCs played chess. I could and still can call out about 70% of our plays pre snap based on formation, line alignment and down/distance. If I can, Kirby Smart sure as hell can. For two years now our backs and tackles routinely give away run/pass based on presnap actions. That's so pathetic it actually makes me wonder if our coaches are so blind that they just don't see it. Seriously, watch Ifedi before the snap and in about five plays you'll know most of the time where it's a run or pass just based on what he does with his feet.
McKinney hasn't recruited well since 2013 and is supposedly the reason we've lost some key guys.
Sumlin doesn't make changes until he is essentially forced to by AD and donor pressure. Know this: Sumlin would keep Spav as OC if he could. The choice was not his. The big money boys said Spav goes or we cut off your recruiting budget. He has been made aware that if he doesn't knock this hire out of the park, his job will not survive and some very unflattering information will come out to reduce the buyout.
Sumlin is being dragged kicking and screaming across the threshold of change here. Most people have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The people who think he makes good changes on time are the same ones who think he is the sole reason our recruiting improved so much. Our recruiting improved in large part because the BMA stepped up in 2012 and started playing ball like most other big programs do. You think Sumlin kept Kyler committed? We cut Kevin Murray a five figure check for that. We aren't anywhere near Ole Miss or Auburn or Phio State, but we are definitely giving him some monetary help on the recruiting trail.
The 2013 defense was unforgivably awful. Chavis could take the defense from Katy High School and not field a defense that bad. It was simply a firable offense, no way around it. Even Billy Liucci was surprised Snyder wasn't fired. I have no idea what you are remembering, but there was outrage when he was retained. The post-Duke Snyder meltdown on TA was top notch. As for Chavis, great as he was he contacted Sumlin and just fell into our lap because he wanted out at LSU.
It was evident last year Spav was playing checkers while DCs played chess. I could and still can call out about 70% of our plays pre snap based on formation, line alignment and down/distance. If I can, Kirby Smart sure as hell can. For two years now our backs and tackles routinely give away run/pass based on presnap actions. That's so pathetic it actually makes me wonder if our coaches are so blind that they just don't see it. Seriously, watch Ifedi before the snap and in about five plays you'll know most of the time where it's a run or pass just based on what he does with his feet.
McKinney hasn't recruited well since 2013 and is supposedly the reason we've lost some key guys.
Sumlin doesn't make changes until he is essentially forced to by AD and donor pressure. Know this: Sumlin would keep Spav as OC if he could. The choice was not his. The big money boys said Spav goes or we cut off your recruiting budget. He has been made aware that if he doesn't knock this hire out of the park, his job will not survive and some very unflattering information will come out to reduce the buyout.
Sumlin is being dragged kicking and screaming across the threshold of change here. Most people have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The people who think he makes good changes on time are the same ones who think he is the sole reason our recruiting improved so much. Our recruiting improved in large part because the BMA stepped up in 2012 and started playing ball like most other big programs do. You think Sumlin kept Kyler committed? We cut Kevin Murray a five figure check for that. We aren't anywhere near Ole Miss or Auburn or Phio State, but we are definitely giving him some monetary help on the recruiting trail.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
I dare you to post that on the zoo or junction.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
On a related note, many in the know are waiting for the other shoe to drop with regards to Ole Miss. When it comes out and the sanctions hit, and it will happen, people will be SHOCKED. It's so beyond what people joke about on the rant. They are all in and it's SWC mid-80s level stuff.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:40 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
the zoo or junction.
The guy I know who works in the program is at the same level as Smokin Aces. I get most of the same info. The stuff I just posted has been posted on 247 before. I don't usually post things here that haven't already been posted elsewhere.
Everything Smokin and GWalley say about Sumlin's lack of involvement in day to day game planning is true. It's actually pretty embarrassing and many in the program are not a fan of how he does things.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 11:42 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
How bad do you think it is with Ole Miss? I hope they get caught btw
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:46 pm to Roger Klarvin
Then what? Are we waiting for him to bolt for the NFL?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:53 pm to Roger Klarvin
I agree with your point that Sumlin doesn't embrace change until he is forced to, and he seems very loyal to subpar coaches when he shouldn't be with the budget he has. I remember after last year we wanted both coordinators fired, but since that was impractical for recruiting Snyder needed to go more and we celebrated that change.
With that said, if we get a great OC hire it will be hard to not stay on CEO Sumlin's bandwagon. I think Mack Brown proved a glad-handling politician is the best way to dominate this state, and Sumlin is that in spades. Let Chavis handle the defensive and Mystery Koolaidman X handle the offense while Sumlin does the recruiting, high school coach blowjobs and social media. Boom.
It would sound crazy, but I feel that Chavis is the best single coach A&M has had since RC. If we can Sumlin he is probably gone too, and I want to see his defense play out one more year at least. Plus Texas being so unstable right now means any place with stability in the state benefits recruiting-wise, and I want to see Sumlin sign a class outside the top 20 before I get off the bandwagon.
With that said, if we get a great OC hire it will be hard to not stay on CEO Sumlin's bandwagon. I think Mack Brown proved a glad-handling politician is the best way to dominate this state, and Sumlin is that in spades. Let Chavis handle the defensive and Mystery Koolaidman X handle the offense while Sumlin does the recruiting, high school coach blowjobs and social media. Boom.
It would sound crazy, but I feel that Chavis is the best single coach A&M has had since RC. If we can Sumlin he is probably gone too, and I want to see his defense play out one more year at least. Plus Texas being so unstable right now means any place with stability in the state benefits recruiting-wise, and I want to see Sumlin sign a class outside the top 20 before I get off the bandwagon.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:03 am to texag7
quote:
How bad do you think it is with Ole Miss? I hope they get caught btw
I've been told it makes the Miami program of the early 2000s look small time in terms of player incentives.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:05 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
what? Are we waiting for him to bolt for the NFL?
We've got around $1.3 million lined up for an OC hire and see what happens. Bad as Sumlin may be, people underestimate how hard it is to start over both on the field and financially.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:22 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I've been told it makes the Miami program of the early 2000s look small time in terms of player incentives.
Miami barely got a slap on the wrist for that.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:26 am to CGSC Lobotomy
Because they are/were a blue blood.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:31 am to Roger Klarvin
Don't be shocked if the sec swings it's dick around to protect a member school and conference reputation
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:44 am to Roger Klarvin
Can we get the "shoe to drop" before they pay Greg little? 
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:48 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The 2012 defense was average, people remember it more fondly because our offense made the scoring gap in many games so wide. It was aided by teams having to go into full blown comeback mode so often as well.
Let's not forget that, after the defensive starters, the reserves (who would become the 2013 starters) were TERRIBLE.
Case in point was the Louisiana Tech game (with 4 starters suspended), the Auburn game (was 49-7 when we pulled the starters), the Sam Houston State game (was 47-0 when we pulled the starters), and the Missouri game (was 42-0 when we pulled the starters)
Posted on 12/3/15 at 2:10 am to Roger Klarvin
It doesn't take inside knowledge to figure out Ole Miss cheats. It's a known fact they cheat. What is not known is how much they bid and how they bid. 2013 was their most 'generous' year. Mammas and babby mammas were taken care off. We also know employment was promised in some cases. But that's about all that has been uncovered so far. I'm sure there is more.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:59 am to Roger Klarvin
That's some pretty serious stuff you posted.
I don't like that it sounds like Sumlin is very resistant to change on an OC when everybody else that isn't blind can see one needs to be made. Interesting that we had to pony up to get Kyler to stay, I don't follow recruiting that much anymore but from what I saw that recruitment was one of the weirdest ones I've seen in awhile.
I don't like that it sounds like Sumlin is very resistant to change on an OC when everybody else that isn't blind can see one needs to be made. Interesting that we had to pony up to get Kyler to stay, I don't follow recruiting that much anymore but from what I saw that recruitment was one of the weirdest ones I've seen in awhile.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 10:16 am to Roger Klarvin
I don't think there's any doubt that next year is make or break for him. Even someone who just follows the program and doesn't really know anyone inside that can see that. When you fire coordinators in back to back years there needs to be improvement or there's only one other person to blame
I still don't think Ole Miss gets punished that badly. The NCAA has lost all it's teeth. When is the last time they really, truly hammered someone? Penn State's sanctions were bad but got neutered this year. USC's were pretty bad I guess. UNC hasn't had shite happen to them really and neither did Miami. Ole Miss isn't any less of a factor on the national scene in football than UNC is but I guess you can argue their AD overall isn't on the status of those three. I still think they're a big enough factor to where they don't see serious punishment.
I still don't think Ole Miss gets punished that badly. The NCAA has lost all it's teeth. When is the last time they really, truly hammered someone? Penn State's sanctions were bad but got neutered this year. USC's were pretty bad I guess. UNC hasn't had shite happen to them really and neither did Miami. Ole Miss isn't any less of a factor on the national scene in football than UNC is but I guess you can argue their AD overall isn't on the status of those three. I still think they're a big enough factor to where they don't see serious punishment.
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