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Fellow Texans, how do you feel about illegal immigrants?

Posted on 3/5/16 at 12:23 am
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 12:23 am
Until recently, I hadn't really thought very in depth about the issue, and even took a pro amnesty stance a few years ago when the talks about reform were popping up in the media.

A few months ago, I read about a young black boy in DISD who felt out of place. He had Hispanic teachers who would often speak Spanish to the 80% of Hispanic students he shared a class with. He felt put off, as though he was an outsider. And to put it lightly, this enraged me. As a black American my ancestors both black and white, toiled in the fields against their will, fought and died in battle, protested for civil rights so that I might have a chance to take advantage of the foundation they built upon which this great country now lies; as did the ancestors of this child.

However, when I look around at demographics in various Texas cities and towns compared to fifty years ago, the rise in Hispanic population is astounding. And it really bothers me that I see the Southern culture in which I grew up and changing so rapidly due to Hispanic influence. The more I notice it, the more I realize that the folks coming illegally from Mexico don't want to come and be Americans. They want to come and be Mexicans and take advantage of the opportunities that Americans fought and died so that other Americans could have a better life.

Have any of y'all really contemplated this issue? Does it bother you as much as it does me? Is there anything to be done about it, or is it too late? We've seen in Europe that multiculturalism doesn't work, yet it seems that nobody is willing to really talk about this or do something for fear of being labeled a racist.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145075 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 12:27 am to
i mean i get why we need to control the situation but have i ever personally been affected by illegal immigration on a micro level? no. do i think we need to build this huge fancy wall or am i clamoring to run down to the border and personally police it? no. do i get why we have laws in place and why there are a group of people policing the border? yes

and personally, the rise of mexican culture in the state of texas doesnt bother me either. we are right on the border, texas was once a part of mexico, its going to happen. but idk, ive only lived in southern california and in texas. but personally, the growth of the mexican community in the united states and especially in the state of texas doesnt really bother me
This post was edited on 3/5/16 at 12:30 am
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 12:58 am to
quote:

personally, the rise of mexican culture in the state of texas doesnt bother me eithe


Never bothered me much because I didn't grow up around it. When I was a kid there was no trace of it in east tx and that's only been 30 years. There are lots of things about the Mexican culture I like. I have a good friend I visit who lives in Mexico and I always enjoy it. However, I don't want to live in Mexico and I prefer the culture in which I grew up to live and raise a family. The Hispanic population in texas has gone from less than five percent to 40 in less than half a century! The fact that they have children at higher rates than Americans means that our culture WILL be quickly pushed out to make way for their own. That bothers me.

quote:

texas was once a part of mexico


The US was also once part of Britain and France. That fact is immaterial, IMHO.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145075 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 1:03 am to
quote:

The fact that they have children at higher rates than Americans means that our culture WILL be quickly pushed out to make way for their own. That bothers me.

eh, it doesnt bother me. i have a hard time believing this country is just going to up and change its core principles and beliefs as demographics change. sure, there will be differences but i have a hard time believing that the country will be fundamentally different. respect for civil liberties, rights granted to local government, a government bound by the constitution, etc is never going to change
quote:


The US was also once part of Britain and France
and our culture borrows HEAVILY from both. especially britain
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 1:20 am to
quote:

respect for civil liberties, rights granted to local government, a government bound by the constitution, etc is never going to change


I mean culture in terms of the way we live day to day. Children of American citizens are already being ignored for the sake of children of illegal immigrants, not just in this boys case, but I've heard this from many sources. Not to mention the dream act.
Posted by greenbastard
Parts Unkown
Member since Feb 2014
2740 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 1:49 am to
quote:

A few months ago, I read about a young black boy in DISD who felt out of place. He had Hispanic teachers who would often speak Spanish to the 80% of Hispanic students he shared a class with. He felt put off, as though he was an outsider. And to put it lightly, this enraged me. As a black American my ancestors both black and white, toiled in the fields against their will, fought and died in battle, protested for civil rights so that I might have a chance to take advantage of the foundation they built upon which this great country now lies; as did the ancestors of this child.

I used to work in the education field (predominantly Hispanic school), and I can honestly say that Spanish was rarely spoken in most classes. The only classes in which Spanish was heavily used were ESL-based classes (which of course is a must). While some of the students did speak Spanish among each other on few occasions, it is nothing like the story you read. This kid is either pissed off at Mexicans (which isn't rare...Many High Schools have racial issues and tension) or the school has severely fricked up his schedule and put him in ESL classes (you'd be surprised at how computer systems can royally frick up schedules )

To be honest, when a HS kid cries wolf, you should take it with a grain of salt. Kids will really say the darnedest things just to get attention...Trust me on that.
quote:

However, when I look around at demographics in various Texas cities and towns compared to fifty years ago, the rise in Hispanic population is astounding.

What did you expect? Hispanics have strong historical ties to this land. The Spanish language never left Tejas when Texas won its independence. Many Tejanos stayed in Texas. There's a reason why Laredo, TX borders a town called Nuevo Laredo, MX.
quote:

And it really bothers me that I see the Southern culture in which I grew up and changing so rapidly due to Hispanic influence.


Hate to break it to you, but your southern heritage has always had Hispanic influence. Look up people like Juan Seguin and Santos Benavides. One of them helped liberate Texas and the other was a Confederate Colonel. Hispanics have helped shape Texas to what it is today. Whether you want to admit it or not is a whole different story.

quote:

They want to come and be Mexicans and take advantage of the opportunities that Americans fought and died so that other Americans could have a better life.

Not only is this inaccurate, but insulting as well. In my time working with HS seniors, over half of the kids that decided to join a branch of the military were those who were here illegally or were here with resident visas. Immigrant students also made up the majority of JROTC participants in the HS I worked in. Although many of them do hold on to their cultural values from Mexico or Central America, they are also proud to call the US their home.
quote:

Have any of y'all really contemplated this issue? Does it bother you as much as it does me? Is there anything to be done about it, or is it too late?

I get what you're saying, but your blame is in the wrong place. Times change. And with it, so do cultures. Nothing stays the same forever.
quote:

We've seen in Europe that multiculturalism doesn't work, yet it seems that nobody is willing to really talk about this or do something for fear of being labeled a racist.

This is absurd.

First of all, Hispanics have been in Texas since the Nueva España days. They're not new here like you make it out to be.

Second, the problem in Europe isn't multiculturalism. It has more to do with Religious extremism and religious intolerance. Conservative Islam isn't really compatible with Western values. Mexico and the US have way more in common than Europe does with the Middle East. It helps that both the US and Mexico both have strong Christian based religions and they both were once European colonies.
Posted by greenbastard
Parts Unkown
Member since Feb 2014
2740 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:05 am to
quote:

I mean culture in terms of the way we live day to day. Children of American citizens are already being ignored for the sake of children of illegal immigrants, not just in this boys case, but I've heard this from many sources. Not to mention the dream act.

Really? I don't recall ever seeing an illegal or a non English speaking kid given preferential treatment over an English speaking kid. Sorry, but your sources are crap. I've worked in the front lines of High Schools with kids of all backgrounds. I can assure you that every single kid is given the same shitty quality education (because it was inner city).
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145075 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:09 am to
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145075 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:39 am to
So I'm going to leave this up for now and see where this thread is in the morning, but if we're still talking about how whether or not we believe the rise of Mexican culture in the US and Texas is an attack on the US then I don't think I'll keep it up. However, I do believe a discussion about immigration is interesting
Posted by Howdyagssec
va beach
Member since Dec 2013
662 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 7:01 am to
I appreciated the open dialog. It's good to hear how different people feel and to have opposing opinion presented. I don't see anything wrong with leaving it up. It's thought provoking.
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 7:52 am to
quote:


What did you expect? Hispanics have strong historical ties to this land. The Spanish language never left Tejas when Texas won its independence. Many Tejanos stayed in Texas.


Yeah I know Hispanics of Mexican heritage who consider themselves to be American first and foremost, and the majority of the ones I see on a daily basis in Dallas are not that.

I understand the Mexican influence, but Austin had less than a 5% Hispanic population in 1960 and Dallas even less. Now they are somewhere near 40 and 30 per cents respectively. Sorry, but that is 100% due to illegal immigration, not Texas' Hispanic heritage.
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 7:57 am to
quote:

I don't recall ever seeing an illegal or a non English speaking kid given preferential treatment over an English speaking kid


My gf is a teacher in East TX and tells a different tune. Ever heard of Gomez and Gomez curriculum development?

The kids point, however, was that due to the teachers themselves being Mexican, they would cater to the Hispanic kids by speaking Spanish often in non Spanish speaking classes. Do you honestly think that is unbelievable?!
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 8:59 am to
quote:

We've seen in Europe that multiculturalism doesn't work
Texas has been multicultural since its inception so I don't think this example is especially relevant

Then again I'm an open-borders hippie who lives in a Hispanic neighborhood
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Yeah I know Hispanics of Mexican heritage who consider themselves to be American first and foremost, and the majority of the ones I see on a daily basis in Dallas are not that.
Are you telling me with 100% confidence the majority of Hispanics you "see on a daily basis" consider themselves Mexican first and foremost? Do you like, stop to conduct an ethnographic survey every time you order a breakfast taco or get a business card with a last name ending in Z? Or are you Professor Xavier?
This post was edited on 3/5/16 at 9:04 am
Posted by Ag8556
Member since May 2012
195 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 9:29 am to
The key difference between hispanic immigration into Texas and immigration trends in Europe is that hispanic immigrants into Texas assimilate over time into American culture.

The parents that come here for jobs in the construction, agriculture, and hospitality industries typically speak very little English and start picking up phrases over time.

The children end up being truly bilingual in Spanish and English.

The grandchildren end up being English speakers with much more limited understanding of Spanish.

In Europe, immigrants are maintaining enclaves based on their home language and religion. There is much less assimilation going on right now. This will be a long term problem for the countries involved unless they are able to figure out how to get the immigrants to assimilate.
Posted by PhilipMarlowe
Member since Mar 2013
20475 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 9:44 am to
As a liberal bloke, I actually agree with some of your points. I worked down in south Texas, and was in and out of courthouses all day long. Language was probably 55% English 45% Spanish.

That said, I had a great time, and found the people to be extremely nice. The only negative was that they fricking love Los Spurs.

The landscape is definitely changing, but goddamnit if I don't love tacos.
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 10:00 am to
I'm liberal as well.
Posted by agalloch
Portland, OR
Member since Jun 2015
1647 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 10:02 am to
I currently live in the whitest city in the country, and if you don't like sushi or foodie restaurants, the food fricking sucks, because white people culture is ultimately just as bland as the food. Do you like the food in Texas? I can guarantee that the vast majority of that food is made by Mexicans, many (most?) of them illegal. And Texas has the best food in the country IMO. Mexicans already had a huge impact on the development of the culture of Texas. The fact that it is becoming more relevant doesn't bother me; cultures can change. I also grew up and went to High School where it was probably ~40/30/30 white/black/hispanic, and never ran in to any issues like OP describes. That's anecdotal, and there were definitely seeded racial issues, but nothing extreme. Just part of life as humans that people want to leave a shitty situation for a better one.

Also, I am far more concerned about punk-arse methed out white dudes yelling at me every single day downtown. The Mexican dudes are busy working at construction sites.
This post was edited on 3/5/16 at 10:20 am
Posted by Ag8556
Member since May 2012
195 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 10:15 am to
Food and architecture are great indicators on how our culture has evolved and adapted over time based on immigration from a variety of countries.

For example, Tex-Mex food is our own adaptation to food influences from Mexico and Spain. You can look at older missions and churches and see the influences of Spanish and Polish Catholics as well as German Lutherans.

Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18798 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 10:26 am to
quote:

I can guarantee that the vast majority of that food is made by Mexicans, many (most?) of them illegal.


This is a large part of what bothers me. The reason why there are illegal immigrants in the kitchen is because business owners can get away with paying migrant workers less than a fair wage, that an American wouldn't take. Go to Louisiana, Missiissippi, Alabama and you won't see Mexicans in the kitchen.
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