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The idea that the SEC cannot be a good basketball league is ridiculous
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:02 pm
I don't know if it only started in the last 10 years as the SEC became the college football power league or what, but his idea from people inside the SEC and fans of SEC teams that the SEC is just destined to suck in basketball is stupid and wrong.
The SEC was a really good conference from 2000-2010, and that league did not have current day elite power Kentucky.
The SEC can be a very good basketball league and was one just a decade ago. It is not some unattainable goal.
Conference Overall RPI Rank
2001 - #1 (0.5738) (6 NCAA teams)
2002 - #1 (0.5839) (6 NCAA teams)
2003 - #1 (0.5807) (6 NCAA teams)
2004 - #2 (0.5888) (6 NCAA teams)
2005 - #5 (0.5606) (5 NCAA teams)
2006 - #4 (0.5690) (6 NCAA teams)
2007 - #2 (0.5814) (5 NCAA teams)
2008 - #4 (0.5634) (6 NCAA teams)
2009 - #1 (0.5849) (3 NCAA teams)
2010 - #4 (0.5601) (4 NCAA teams)
Then the bottom fell out
2011 - #6 (0.5531) (5 NCAA teams)
2012 - #3 (0.5651) (4 NCAA teams)
2013 - #8 (0.5420) (3 NCAA teams)
2014 - #7 (0.5494) (3 NCAA teams)
2015 - #5 (0.5530) (5 NCAA teams)
2016 - #5 (0.5495) (3 NCAA teams)
The SEC was a really good conference from 2000-2010, and that league did not have current day elite power Kentucky.
The SEC can be a very good basketball league and was one just a decade ago. It is not some unattainable goal.
Conference Overall RPI Rank
2001 - #1 (0.5738) (6 NCAA teams)
2002 - #1 (0.5839) (6 NCAA teams)
2003 - #1 (0.5807) (6 NCAA teams)
2004 - #2 (0.5888) (6 NCAA teams)
2005 - #5 (0.5606) (5 NCAA teams)
2006 - #4 (0.5690) (6 NCAA teams)
2007 - #2 (0.5814) (5 NCAA teams)
2008 - #4 (0.5634) (6 NCAA teams)
2009 - #1 (0.5849) (3 NCAA teams)
2010 - #4 (0.5601) (4 NCAA teams)
Then the bottom fell out
2011 - #6 (0.5531) (5 NCAA teams)
2012 - #3 (0.5651) (4 NCAA teams)
2013 - #8 (0.5420) (3 NCAA teams)
2014 - #7 (0.5494) (3 NCAA teams)
2015 - #5 (0.5530) (5 NCAA teams)
2016 - #5 (0.5495) (3 NCAA teams)
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Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:04 pm to SummerOfGeorge
It definitely can be. We have the athletic revenue, TV contracts, and talent base.
However, it won’t be until they start scheduling elite OOC games and playing in big time tournaments to start the season. That can’t just be the top 6 teams doing that either, everyone has to do it.
However, it won’t be until they start scheduling elite OOC games and playing in big time tournaments to start the season. That can’t just be the top 6 teams doing that either, everyone has to do it.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:05 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
2009 - #1 (0.5849) (3 NCAA teams)
What the hell happened this year?
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:08 pm to Farmer1906
quote:
What the hell happened this year?
There was really only 1 really really bad team and a bunch of bubble teams. State went on a run and won the SECT or they wouldn't have gotten in.
NCAAT
Tennessee : 21-13 (#25)
LSU : 27-8 (#37)
Mississippi St : 23-13 (#63)
Non-NCAAT
Florida : 25-11 (#54)
South Carolina : 21-10 (#58)
Auburn : 24-12 (#64)
Kentucky : 22-14 (#79)
Ole Miss : 16-15 (#82)
Vanderbilt : 19-12 (#95)
Alabama : 18-14 (#108)
Arkansas : 14-16 (#149)
Georgia : 12-20 (#192)
This post was edited on 3/16/16 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:15 pm to SummerOfGeorge
2009 was Auburn's last decent squad. I remember thinking we had an outside shot at the NCAAT late in the year. Think Florida bounced us from the SECT and sealed our fate.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:16 pm to TheCaterpillar
Believe it or not, the State of Florida doesn't have enough HS basketball talent to support a great team without getting recruits from out of state.
Our best players leave for other schools as well.
We have to have a coach that can recruit nationally and even Billy D struggled with that at times. We don't have the brand to compete with Duke, NC, etc.
Our best players leave for other schools as well.
We have to have a coach that can recruit nationally and even Billy D struggled with that at times. We don't have the brand to compete with Duke, NC, etc.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:17 pm to Ross
quote:
2009 was Auburn's last decent squad. I remember thinking we had an outside shot at the NCAAT late in the year. Think Florida bounced us from the SECT and sealed our fate.
Very similar to Alabama's 2011 team. Had a bad OOC schedule and results and couldn't quite make up for it in the horrible SEC West.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:22 pm to SummerOfGeorge
The rise of Cal and Kentucky is probably the main culprit. Same thing is happening to a lesser extent in football with Bama. Seems it's hard for other teams to stay at a consistently elite-ish level when you have one team dominating the conference.
ETA: I predict the years that follow Cal leaving UK for whatever reason will see a huge rise in overall quality of SEC basketball.
ETA: I predict the years that follow Cal leaving UK for whatever reason will see a huge rise in overall quality of SEC basketball.
This post was edited on 3/16/16 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:24 pm to SummerOfGeorge
we really are only a few years away from being a competitve basketball conference. kentucky isnt going anywhere, a&m has all of a sudden built itself a nice program thats going to be good for the next five years, great coaches were hired across the board last year. i think well look back 5 years from now and be surprised how low the conference was
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:25 pm to Team Vote
quote:i dont really accept this when you have conferences like the ACC and the big 12 where one or two teams have basically dominated but you still have a deep conference full of respectable teams
The rise of Cal and Kentucky is probably the main culprit. Same thing is happening to a lesser extent in football with Bama. Seems it's hard for other teams to stay at a consistently elite-ish level when you have one team dominating the conference.
This post was edited on 3/16/16 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:25 pm to roadGator
roadGator has mentioned the problem.
The basketball talent in the South just isn't there like it used to be. Best athletes in most high schools are playing football and running track.
In Mississippi, the 6A boys basketball championship was a final score of 37-33. It was miserable. There's just no talent where there used to be substantial talent.
And I believe Malik Newman was way overrated as a HS player. He was a good high school player, but looked elite because everyone else is poor.
Of the top 25 players in the Class of 2016, Kentucky signed three and Auburn signed one (#25). But that's not the complete problem. There are only eight of the top 25 from an SEC state (and 3 are from Texas/Missouri).
The top player in Alabama signed with Michigan State.
The top player in Georgia signed with Arizona.
Only the top player in Arkansas stayed in the SEC - and went to Kentucky.
Only Mississippi State was able to keep their state's best player at home. And he's an Oak Hill Academy guy - not a Mississippi high school player.
When you have UNLV stealing the best player from Tennessee, and Massachusetts getting a kid from NOLA, that's a problem.
The basketball talent in the South just isn't there like it used to be. Best athletes in most high schools are playing football and running track.
In Mississippi, the 6A boys basketball championship was a final score of 37-33. It was miserable. There's just no talent where there used to be substantial talent.
And I believe Malik Newman was way overrated as a HS player. He was a good high school player, but looked elite because everyone else is poor.
Of the top 25 players in the Class of 2016, Kentucky signed three and Auburn signed one (#25). But that's not the complete problem. There are only eight of the top 25 from an SEC state (and 3 are from Texas/Missouri).
The top player in Alabama signed with Michigan State.
The top player in Georgia signed with Arizona.
Only the top player in Arkansas stayed in the SEC - and went to Kentucky.
Only Mississippi State was able to keep their state's best player at home. And he's an Oak Hill Academy guy - not a Mississippi high school player.
When you have UNLV stealing the best player from Tennessee, and Massachusetts getting a kid from NOLA, that's a problem.
This post was edited on 3/16/16 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:25 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
i think well look back 5 years from now and be surprised how low the conference was
That is my positive outlook as well. What strikes me though is how a lot of fans seem to just accept and almost laugh/brag about how "terrible" SEC basketball is like it has always been that way. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:29 pm to Team Vote
I don't buy that at all. Saban's run has coincided with the SEC being the strongest football conference in the country. It has caused an arms race among facilities, coaches, etc.
The difference is that the SEC went about a decade not giving a shite about basketball. The facilities were substandard, the coaches were arse, and the scheduling was bad. All of these things are improving.
The difference is that the SEC went about a decade not giving a shite about basketball. The facilities were substandard, the coaches were arse, and the scheduling was bad. All of these things are improving.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:31 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
i dont really accept this when you have conferences like the ACC and the big 12 were one or two teams have basically dominated but you still have a deep conference full of respectable teams
Good point, maybe it's more attributable to the overall quality of coaches in those leagues compared to SEC coaches and poor OOC scheduling/results from the middling teams in the league.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:34 pm to anc
quote:
The basketball talent in the South just isn't there like it used to be
There will always be a crap ton of basketball talent within 2 hours of atlanta. Problem is a lot of these families are transplants and DGAS about staying home so they go to duke/unc/kansas/ucla/etc.
Similar problem with UGA keeping atlanta kids home in football. It's easy to say "Atlanta is in georgia, UGA should get all of them!" without realizing that some of these kids have been in the state for like 3 years and they couldn't care less about what state they're in. They didn't grow up here and have no ties here other than their parents working here.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:35 pm to anc
quote:
The basketball talent in the South just isn't there like it used to be
Ton of talent in TN, GA, and TX. Above average talent in Bama.
quote:
And I believe Malik Newman was way overrated as a HS player.
Malik Newman just made a poor college decision. He is a PnR scorer, who decided to play for a coach who doesn't run PnR.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:36 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
2009 - #1 (0.5849) (3 NCAA teams)
2010 - #4 (0.5601) (4 NCAA teams)
Then the bottom fell out
2011 - #6 (0.5531) (5 NCAA teams)
2012 - #3 (0.5651) (4 NCAA teams)
2013 - #8 (0.5420) (3 NCAA teams)
2014 - #7 (0.5494) (3 NCAA teams)
2015 - #5 (0.5530) (5 NCAA teams)
2016 - #5 (0.5495) (3 NCAA teams)
So ... the bottom actually fell-out in 2009?
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:37 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Similar problem with UGA keeping atlanta kids home in football. It's easy to say "Atlanta is in georgia, UGA should get all of them!" without realizing that some of these kids have been in the state for like 3 years and they couldn't care less about what state they're in.
Mark Fox also isn't all that great of recruiter and your arena is horrible
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:38 pm to scrooster
quote:
So ... the bottom actually fell-out in 2009?
No - 2009 had a lot of solid teams with good RPIs, we just ended up eating eachother alive and had 4-5 teams barely not making the tournament with Top 65 RPIs.
The bottom fell out when a whole division had 4/6 of its teams with RPI's of 200+ that cannibalized the other 2 and destroyed their RPI's as well.
Posted on 3/16/16 at 4:38 pm to WG_Dawg
Atlanta and Miami (and to a lesser extent Memphis) are a little different from the rest of the South, I understand it.
The factor that I am talking about is that the Mario Austins and Erick Dampiers aren't there anymore. Superstar from some small high school in the middle of nowhere. The sports focused schools (IMG, Oak Hill, 22 ft) are getting the elite talent. At the smaller schools, the athletes aren't playing hoops anymore.
I can remember the 6A championship in Mississippi featuring seven players that would play in the SEC. This year, it was 37-33 and was as bad as it sounds.
The factor that I am talking about is that the Mario Austins and Erick Dampiers aren't there anymore. Superstar from some small high school in the middle of nowhere. The sports focused schools (IMG, Oak Hill, 22 ft) are getting the elite talent. At the smaller schools, the athletes aren't playing hoops anymore.
I can remember the 6A championship in Mississippi featuring seven players that would play in the SEC. This year, it was 37-33 and was as bad as it sounds.
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