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re: The beginning of the end of the NCAA in football has begun....
Posted on 1/21/13 at 8:22 am to JDM1992
Posted on 1/21/13 at 8:22 am to JDM1992
quote:
I personally think UNC, UVA, and Duke are going to be in the same conference. I guess that leaves us with NC State and Virginia Tech.
I would agree with this. And I think VT and NCSU are very solid additions for us to park at 16. Both are Land Grant schools, and both have large research budgets. And I would say that both are "culturally" most like this league as far as support and traditions. VT would in many ways be TAMU's sister school.
Let me backtrack and say how happy we are to be in the SEC! Texas A&M should have always been here. For over 20 years, since Arkansas left the SWC, I have always felt that we made a huge mistake by not joining them. When the SWC disbanded, we again made a mistake by not coming then as well. However, the political climate in Texas during the 1990s would have made it very difficult for us to survive a move. Unlike now.
At any rate, whatever happens, I'm glad we are home.
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Posted on 1/21/13 at 8:23 am to molsusports
quote:
If the Republicans don't revisit their immigration policies Texas will be blue in 2016 or 2020
You assume the following:
1. All hispanics are Mexicans
2. All LEGAL immigrants approve of what the illegals are doing
3. All 2nd generation hispanics vote lock-step democrat like many blacks do
All three assumptions (which aren't valid) must be true for your argument to work.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 8:30 am to TutHillTiger
I can see UV going to the Big 10 and FSU going to the Big 12 but but I will be very surprised if any of the NC schools leave the ACC.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 8:59 am to davesdawgs
quote:
I can see UV going to the Big 10 and FSU going to the Big 12 but but I will be very surprised if any of the NC schools leave the ACC.
The North Carolina schools will leave only if/when they believe the ACC is doomed as a major conference.
The loss of Virginia to the BIG and Miami, FSU and possibly Clemson to the B12 would certainly signal the conference is in deep doo doo.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:26 am to dr__dawggy
UNC is the most powerful school in the ACC and it wants the ACC to survive to keep its kingdom intact.
If the ACC does eventually fall apart, UNC is the most important prize in the ACC. Because of that if I were running UNC I would do everything possible to keep the ACC going but even when/if it becomes apparent that the ACC won't survive UNC doesn't have to make any rash decisions. It has the luxury of waiting as long as it wants to jump ship b/c it has two potential homes.
So I think UNC will stick around until at least three of these schools jump ship: UVA, Clemson, FSU, NC State, Ga. Tech. If enough of those schools leave then the conference is doomed, but I think the ACC could survive another defection or even two.
If the ACC does eventually fall apart, UNC is the most important prize in the ACC. Because of that if I were running UNC I would do everything possible to keep the ACC going but even when/if it becomes apparent that the ACC won't survive UNC doesn't have to make any rash decisions. It has the luxury of waiting as long as it wants to jump ship b/c it has two potential homes.
So I think UNC will stick around until at least three of these schools jump ship: UVA, Clemson, FSU, NC State, Ga. Tech. If enough of those schools leave then the conference is doomed, but I think the ACC could survive another defection or even two.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:31 am to Mizzeaux
quote:
The goal is going to be to get a school in as many states as possible so you can maximize your network profits.
This.
That's why we need to go after Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt and Fresno State.
...
Can we start thinking about matchups, rivalries and travelling to away games now?
Is this the NFL, where you can have N.O., ATL, LA and SF in the same division, or is it still college football?
Is the point of college football to increase revenue to member institutions, or is it to entertain fans?
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:37 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:Unfortunately over the last 5-10 years this seems to be the conferences new MO...
Is the point of college football to increase revenue to member institutions,
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:37 am to WildTchoupitoulas
nm
This post was edited on 1/21/13 at 9:38 am
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:43 am to GumBro Jackson
quote:
UNC is the most powerful school in the ACC and it wants the ACC to survive to keep its kingdom intact.
agree... B10 is trying to chip away the foundation (MD, UVA) of the ACC to get UNC to give up hope. B10 Commish Jim Delaney played for Dean Smith at UNC and got his law degree from there. if B10 gets UVa and threatens to take GT, UNC may come to realization that they must jump too. Being in a conference w/ Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse and BC does not excite them. They want the Greensboro centric conference. Duke may go w/ UNC, but Duke doesn't have much value athletically.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:51 am to dr__dawggy
The ACC is already doomed, it's just a matter of when. The conference now is fatally flawed with their TV deal and losing MD (a charter member that is a big AAU school and part of the core that ran the ACC). The AD's are losing money and it's getting worse, more and more schools will have to drop more and more sports and won't be able to complete in football because of that lack of money. That spells death for the ACC. Also, having 4 schools (2 of which are small, private schools) from NC just doesn't work in the modern map of college athletics.
So once you realize the ACC is doomed, it becomes a matter of when UNC and UVA decide to bail. They are the conference. While they aren't great football powers they are monster political and academic powers. Both are Top 10 (if not Top 5) public schools that have large alumni bases and lots of money and power. They are 2 of the most influential schools in the AAU.
Some folks blow off the academic side but it shows ignorance to do so. College Presidents do the voting on conference expansion and they care about academics in a big way. There is no greater gold standard than the AAU when it comes to academics. Schools are either members and want other members or they are not members and want to add members to increase their chances of getting in. For the SEC this is esp important to UGA, Bama, and Auburn which are all on the cusp. AAU membership means millions and millions of research dollars annually and it allows those College Presidents to go to elitist academic meetings with other AAU members. It's the ultimate academic fraternity. Discount it all you want but the AAU, esp for the public schools, is the brass ring. Why else do you think the Big 1G added freaking Rutgers?
NC State would be a terrible add for the SEC. It is not an AAU school. It would be one of the worst AD's in the SEC (possibly the worst). It has a small stadium with mediocre support. It has a modest alumni base. There really is very little that is interesting about NC State other than it is a public school in North Carolina. The real deal breaker though is the BoR at NC State is controlled by UNC. There is absolutely no way a conference as powerful and prestigious as the SEC should allow a member that is actually controlled by a school in a different conference. NO WAY. You can't allow UNC to effectively have a vote in the SEC if they are not a member and that is what you are doing if you add NC State as a stand alone. The Big 12 is probably desperate enough to do so but not the SEC.
If you had to add a NC school and can't get UNC then Duke is a better yet not very attractive option. At least Duke is an academic heavyweight with a ton of money and a top notch basketball and minor sports program. They have a tiny (but powerful) alumni base though and very little fan support for football though and that really hurts. They have fewer fleas than NC State though and at least they bring some tangible value.
This also dovetails into why the UNC/Duke as a "package" makes no logical sense. UNC is a public school and Duke is private. It would make far more sense that UNC has to take care of NC State above Duke. Remember this is about a lot more than athletics. Politically I don't see how UNC could leave NC State to fend for itself while "taking care" of Duke. I could maybe see UNC going as a package with UVA to the Big 1G politically (then they are not favoring one NC school over the others and they are deeply tied to UVA as 2 elite Flagship Public Schools that have run the ACC since it was founded). Personally I think UNC needs to make sure that NC State either has a Big 12 or SEC bid to do anything and the SEC would be foolish to take NC State as a stand alone.
Virginia Tech would be a decent add but UVA is better, though I don't know that the SEC can pull that off. UVA seems like a better fit for the Big 1G because they view conference membership as a means to an end in terms of academics and really research dollars. VTech is fine but they will struggle in the SEC as they will never be able to match the financial resources of the major East schools, UF, UGA, and UT all would tower over them. They will be a mid level SEC school long term.
UNC and UVA are the prizes, along with ND of course but that's a really complicated one that has about a 1 in 10,000 chance of joining the SEC. Neither is a football power but they have the resources to be one if they chose to and they are incredibly strong in every other aspect. Ironically the conference that will luck out in all of this is the Big 12, they are going to thrive by picking up all the schools that don't fit with the SEC and Big 1G for various reasons.
So once you realize the ACC is doomed, it becomes a matter of when UNC and UVA decide to bail. They are the conference. While they aren't great football powers they are monster political and academic powers. Both are Top 10 (if not Top 5) public schools that have large alumni bases and lots of money and power. They are 2 of the most influential schools in the AAU.
Some folks blow off the academic side but it shows ignorance to do so. College Presidents do the voting on conference expansion and they care about academics in a big way. There is no greater gold standard than the AAU when it comes to academics. Schools are either members and want other members or they are not members and want to add members to increase their chances of getting in. For the SEC this is esp important to UGA, Bama, and Auburn which are all on the cusp. AAU membership means millions and millions of research dollars annually and it allows those College Presidents to go to elitist academic meetings with other AAU members. It's the ultimate academic fraternity. Discount it all you want but the AAU, esp for the public schools, is the brass ring. Why else do you think the Big 1G added freaking Rutgers?
NC State would be a terrible add for the SEC. It is not an AAU school. It would be one of the worst AD's in the SEC (possibly the worst). It has a small stadium with mediocre support. It has a modest alumni base. There really is very little that is interesting about NC State other than it is a public school in North Carolina. The real deal breaker though is the BoR at NC State is controlled by UNC. There is absolutely no way a conference as powerful and prestigious as the SEC should allow a member that is actually controlled by a school in a different conference. NO WAY. You can't allow UNC to effectively have a vote in the SEC if they are not a member and that is what you are doing if you add NC State as a stand alone. The Big 12 is probably desperate enough to do so but not the SEC.
If you had to add a NC school and can't get UNC then Duke is a better yet not very attractive option. At least Duke is an academic heavyweight with a ton of money and a top notch basketball and minor sports program. They have a tiny (but powerful) alumni base though and very little fan support for football though and that really hurts. They have fewer fleas than NC State though and at least they bring some tangible value.
This also dovetails into why the UNC/Duke as a "package" makes no logical sense. UNC is a public school and Duke is private. It would make far more sense that UNC has to take care of NC State above Duke. Remember this is about a lot more than athletics. Politically I don't see how UNC could leave NC State to fend for itself while "taking care" of Duke. I could maybe see UNC going as a package with UVA to the Big 1G politically (then they are not favoring one NC school over the others and they are deeply tied to UVA as 2 elite Flagship Public Schools that have run the ACC since it was founded). Personally I think UNC needs to make sure that NC State either has a Big 12 or SEC bid to do anything and the SEC would be foolish to take NC State as a stand alone.
Virginia Tech would be a decent add but UVA is better, though I don't know that the SEC can pull that off. UVA seems like a better fit for the Big 1G because they view conference membership as a means to an end in terms of academics and really research dollars. VTech is fine but they will struggle in the SEC as they will never be able to match the financial resources of the major East schools, UF, UGA, and UT all would tower over them. They will be a mid level SEC school long term.
UNC and UVA are the prizes, along with ND of course but that's a really complicated one that has about a 1 in 10,000 chance of joining the SEC. Neither is a football power but they have the resources to be one if they chose to and they are incredibly strong in every other aspect. Ironically the conference that will luck out in all of this is the Big 12, they are going to thrive by picking up all the schools that don't fit with the SEC and Big 1G for various reasons.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:55 am to aggressor
quote:
UNC and UVA are the prizes
Yep and no way the SEC gets them IMO...
Posted on 1/21/13 at 9:56 am to TideJoe
quote:
Yet their AD still brings in $20MM more than Mizzou.
You should probably wait until Mizzou gets a conference payout before comparing.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:12 am to aggressor
the B10 is also a research consortium(Committee on Institutional Cooperation) that includes Univ. of Chicago, which is why they favor AAU schools. also, the AAU was founded in the midwest, which is why schools like Iowa, Iowa State & Nebraska (*former member) are members, but southern schools w/ equal or better academic prestige have taken longer to get invited.
w/ that, the SEC try to find good academic schools to help the conference image, but athletics and tv markets will always be the driver. the SEC would love to have UNC, but if UNC is going to give up on the ACC, they'd rather affiliate w/ the B10 than answer to Alabama about where they team bench can be in the Dean Dome. Duke has very little value to a major confence, but their academics may get them an invite to the B10 as a package deal w/ UNC. UNC and NCSU both have the same board of regents, but it's not a "UNC" board. the university board of governors has enough political power to make the decisions for their respective schools. NCSU has a huge potential that many people recognize. once they get decoupled from the basketball focus of the ACC, they'll do fine. good recruiting base and good fan support. joining the SEC would immediately change their focus.
w/ that, the SEC try to find good academic schools to help the conference image, but athletics and tv markets will always be the driver. the SEC would love to have UNC, but if UNC is going to give up on the ACC, they'd rather affiliate w/ the B10 than answer to Alabama about where they team bench can be in the Dean Dome. Duke has very little value to a major confence, but their academics may get them an invite to the B10 as a package deal w/ UNC. UNC and NCSU both have the same board of regents, but it's not a "UNC" board. the university board of governors has enough political power to make the decisions for their respective schools. NCSU has a huge potential that many people recognize. once they get decoupled from the basketball focus of the ACC, they'll do fine. good recruiting base and good fan support. joining the SEC would immediately change their focus.
This post was edited on 1/21/13 at 10:15 am
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:13 am to aggressor
quote:
Both are Top 10 (if not Top 5) public schools
Michigan, Cal, Virginia and UNC are the top 4 public universities in my opinion.
quote:
College Presidents do the voting on conference expansion and they care about academics in a big way.
Concur.
quote:
This also dovetails into why the UNC/Duke as a "package" makes no logical sense. UNC is a public school and Duke is private. It would make far more sense that UNC has to take care of NC State above Duke
According to internet blogsters who seem obsessed with realignment, the SEC is willing let UNC choose its own date to the SEC ball...and UNC prefers Duke. This makes sense at many levels. As you noted, AAU membership matters and both Duke and UNC are in that fraternity. The addition of 2 AAU programs to the SEC, coupled with the 4 SEC member schools already in the AAU, enhances the academic prestige of the conference....this is important not just to the conference but to UNC as well.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:18 am to dr__dawggy
Ok, I'm not going to read this entire fricking thread but is it too late to drop Missouri back in the bargain bin?
What a failed "experiment."
What a failed "experiment."
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:26 am to aggressor
quote:
College Presidents do the voting on conference expansion and they care about academics in a big way.
"Maybe", but the almighty dollar trumps everything with College Presidents.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:28 am to aggressor
quote:
The ACC is already doomed, it's just a matter of when.
I disagree. The ACC seems to be teetering and the Maryland departure was huge, but I don't think it is doomed yet. IMO it will take at least two more defections to kill it. They are a decent football conference with a lucrative Orange Bowl contract, and they are a basketball power. Even without Maryland they will have fourteen schools in football and fifteen in other sports.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:30 am to Mullen3:16
quote:
Ok, I'm not going to read this entire fricking thread but is it too late to drop Missouri back in the bargain bin?
You have to at least give them one more cycle to redeem themselves.
Posted on 1/21/13 at 10:37 am to aggressor
@aggressor - Trenchant analysis.
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