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re: Simple math to explain expansion appetite
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:05 am to texag7
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:05 am to texag7
I either wasn't clear in my explanation or you didn't understand the math
SECN $ are about $5m per school
TV revenue is about $35m ($5 is a little less than 15% of that)
Ticket sales incl donations are about $65m (35m is a little more than 50%)
A&M's school revenue far exceeds $1bn annually ($65m is less than 5% of it easily)
SECN $ are about $5m per school
TV revenue is about $35m ($5 is a little less than 15% of that)
Ticket sales incl donations are about $65m (35m is a little more than 50%)
A&M's school revenue far exceeds $1bn annually ($65m is less than 5% of it easily)
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Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:08 am to tmc94
Link?
From what I've read most of the 32.7 mil paid out to each school was largely due in part to the SEC Network
From what I've read most of the 32.7 mil paid out to each school was largely due in part to the SEC Network
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:16 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Where are you getting a different story, because there are lots of links to this "fan fiction"?:
from talking to people who make decisions and don't post on message boards
For A&M the tv revenue is almost irrelevant. It's nice but the marginal difference between the B12 and SEC is not enough for anyone to give a frick at this point.
The sips made more on tv this year than we did. However, no one cares to go to their games. No one is making donations to get in line for tickets. No one is giving money to the University.
And they have far less exposure as many of their games are on obscure channels. But they took the shiny beads of extra tv money
A&M put themselves in that same spot when the the B12 was formed. It took years to see the deterioration it caused to our brand and unfortunately our AD was run by people that didn't get that big picture. There is a residual effect that only materializes over time and causes latent damage to a brand
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:17 am to texag7
you can look it up yourself lazy. The SECN kicked off about $5m last year. The rest was the CBS/ESPN contracts
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:20 am to tmc94
quote:
SECN $ are about $5m per school
According to this FOX Sports article, the annual "profit" for for the SEC Network (revenue less direct costs) was expected to be about $550 million.
So, are you telling me that Mike Slive, widely regarded as one of the best negotiators in sports, took a deal that gave $70 million to SEC schools (and maybe a little more to the SEC offices), and the other $480 million goes to ESPN?
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:21 am to tmc94
quote:
you can look it up yourself lazy
Well, so far, I have directly linked to 4 completely different sources. Can you come up with 1?
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:25 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
the annual "profit"
I'm not reading it but I'd start by pointing out that profit =/= revenue
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:27 am to tmc94
From my post (NOT the article)
From YOUR post
Good Lord! Are you even looking at the posts, or just using The Force?
AND, I even put "profit" in quotation marks, simply because it is more like Gross Margin, but I at least indicated that direct costs were removed.
quote:
the annual "profit" for for the SEC Network (revenue less direct costs)
From YOUR post
quote:
I'm not reading it but I'd start by pointing out that profit =/= revenue
Good Lord! Are you even looking at the posts, or just using The Force?
AND, I even put "profit" in quotation marks, simply because it is more like Gross Margin, but I at least indicated that direct costs were removed.
This post was edited on 5/13/16 at 12:32 am
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:33 am to Ag Zwin
dude, just google it. I'm sorry but am on a phone and it's a major pita.
The SEC distributed $25m or so in 2014. $31.2m in 2015. The Playoff and SECN were the primary difference. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Y'all are acting like the $31.2m was some all new amount
The SEC distributed $25m or so in 2014. $31.2m in 2015. The Playoff and SECN were the primary difference. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Y'all are acting like the $31.2m was some all new amount
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:37 am to tmc94
I give up.
I've already admitted the OP was simplistic in the math, but that the SECN was a huge factor in the recent growth.
If anyone else out there can tell me where I am missing his point, I'm all ears. Didn't he just say SECN was a primary difference, but has been arguing that it was of little significance?
Clearly, I am reading too many rumor sites (ESPN, Fox, Yahoo, CBS)
I've already admitted the OP was simplistic in the math, but that the SECN was a huge factor in the recent growth.
If anyone else out there can tell me where I am missing his point, I'm all ears. Didn't he just say SECN was a primary difference, but has been arguing that it was of little significance?
Clearly, I am reading too many rumor sites (ESPN, Fox, Yahoo, CBS)
This post was edited on 5/13/16 at 12:40 am
Posted on 5/13/16 at 12:59 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Clearly, I am reading too many rumor sites (ESPN, Fox, Yahoo, CBS)
I'm sorry you are frustrated but you really should revisit these if your take away is SECN was some $30m/school growth.
The conference distributes money every year. Last year was not unique in that regard. The additional amount last year was less than $10m per school and included bumps for a new ESPN contract, the CFB playoff, and SECN.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 1:12 am to texag7
quote:
It was over $10m. Right around $11.7 mil increase per school.
I'm not versed in the numbers but that reads like the SEC clearly didn't take home $550 million from the SECN. More like $70- $140 million.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 1:33 am to TheCheshireHog
I'm home now and can actually link stuff easier. That's right about correct cheshire.
The Clay Travis article linked above is from July 2014, before the SEC Network even existed. The SEC doesn't break down revenue streams but this is an estimate from the tax records
LINK
One caveat to that is they appear to use static numbers for the ESPN tier 2 contract and that was reworked. Clearly it couldn't have been that big a difference and maybe all they did was extended the term (dollar figures were never announced)
Ray Tanner (SC AD) was quoted last Feb
LINK
So I think a pretty reasonable estimate is between $5m and $6.8m. And each school had a tier 3 deal prior to this (A&M's only paid like $1.5m while UF's was in the $5m range iirc)
I think this year the thought is we'll exceed $8m or so per school
But the average SEC AD has in excess of $100m in revenue. So SECN revenue is nice and all, but it's just not the end all be all that you're making it out to be.
The Clay Travis article linked above is from July 2014, before the SEC Network even existed. The SEC doesn't break down revenue streams but this is an estimate from the tax records
LINK
quote:
Round that figure up to $102M for simplicity’s sake, divide it by 15 – 14 member institutions plus a share that goes to the conference office – and you are left with what I figure, and have had confirmed to me, is a reasonably accurate estimate of a $6.8M per member payout as a direct result of the SEC Network.
One caveat to that is they appear to use static numbers for the ESPN tier 2 contract and that was reworked. Clearly it couldn't have been that big a difference and maybe all they did was extended the term (dollar figures were never announced)
Ray Tanner (SC AD) was quoted last Feb
LINK
quote:
This summer we’ll receive a distribution (and) I think it will be at least $5 million. I’d like to think that’s on the conservative side. Each school will receive a $5 million gain.
So I think a pretty reasonable estimate is between $5m and $6.8m. And each school had a tier 3 deal prior to this (A&M's only paid like $1.5m while UF's was in the $5m range iirc)
I think this year the thought is we'll exceed $8m or so per school
But the average SEC AD has in excess of $100m in revenue. So SECN revenue is nice and all, but it's just not the end all be all that you're making it out to be.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 1:48 am to tmc94
I already said it was not as simple as all the $31.2 coming from the SECN, but that the overall add of a new school had to be above that.
I backed off saying it was all SECN, but I stand by that it was biggest game changer. The sites I referenced (all less than a year and a half old and ostensibly well-versed in the issue) all pointed to this.
The actual number just for the SECN is not clear, but overall TV and radio was over $300 million. CBS kicks in 55 of that for Tier 1. Radio has to be a minor part. Let's charitably give it 2 million per school, or 28 million. That means Tier 2 and Tier 3 are probably still over 210 million, and these are the ESPN/SECN games. Someone smarter than me will need to flesh out how all that money gets attributed to either ESPN or SECN, but it is probably immaterial.
What is relatively clear is that the actual revenue for just SECN fees is about 547 million, and the SEC probably get about half that. So, again, we are probably at abut upper teens per school, all in.
Again, my initial run of numbers was too simplistic, and I freely admit it. But I also think it is way off to say that the SEC network only adds $5 million to each school.
I backed off saying it was all SECN, but I stand by that it was biggest game changer. The sites I referenced (all less than a year and a half old and ostensibly well-versed in the issue) all pointed to this.
The actual number just for the SECN is not clear, but overall TV and radio was over $300 million. CBS kicks in 55 of that for Tier 1. Radio has to be a minor part. Let's charitably give it 2 million per school, or 28 million. That means Tier 2 and Tier 3 are probably still over 210 million, and these are the ESPN/SECN games. Someone smarter than me will need to flesh out how all that money gets attributed to either ESPN or SECN, but it is probably immaterial.
What is relatively clear is that the actual revenue for just SECN fees is about 547 million, and the SEC probably get about half that. So, again, we are probably at abut upper teens per school, all in.
Again, my initial run of numbers was too simplistic, and I freely admit it. But I also think it is way off to say that the SEC network only adds $5 million to each school.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 7:02 am to Ag Zwin
You're overcomplicating this honestly.
311-210 = 101. That's the entire year over year delta on tv revenue which includes annual escalators, a new ESPN contract, and SEC Network.
Even if you assigned 100% of that change to SECN it's only $6.8m per school. That's the absolute max it was last year.
311-210 = 101. That's the entire year over year delta on tv revenue which includes annual escalators, a new ESPN contract, and SEC Network.
Even if you assigned 100% of that change to SECN it's only $6.8m per school. That's the absolute max it was last year.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 7:21 am to tmc94
It's a big assumption to think the next round of expansion will be solely about money. Things can change this next time around
Posted on 5/13/16 at 7:31 am to Farmer1906
if you overload the conference with weak competition you will end up devaluing the product. just leave it as is
Posted on 5/13/16 at 9:51 am to Ag Zwin
Not including bowl and/or NCAA tournament revenues. Good programs can deliver those as well.
Posted on 5/13/16 at 10:13 am to Ag Zwin
quote:
Ag Zwin
Here sir, have an upvote.
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