re: SEC Basketball: Is it the Big 3 compared to Big 6 of football?

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1. Kentucky





2. Florida






3. Arkansas


4. LSU

5. Tennessee
6. Missouri
7. Alabama

8. Vanderbilt

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I would actually have Florida and Arkansas on the same level, or Arkansas slightly ahead of Florida. Definitely not a gap like you suggest.

National Titles
Florida: 2
Arkansas 1

National Title Games
Florida: 3
Arkansas: 2

NCAA Tourney's
Arkansas: 30(31 invites)
Florida: 17

Final Fours
Arkansas: 6
Florida 5

Elite Eights
Arkansas: 10
Florida: 8

Sweet Sixteens
Arkansas: 10
Florida: 9

All Time Wins
Arkansas: 1,619 (94 seasons)
Florida: 1,381 (98 seasons)

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Yet Arky or LSU have never won a SEC All Sports Trophy in a long time.

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We are too busy winning national titles!

Though Florida is steadily closing the gap and in the next twenty years (possibly sooner) will probably have a clear lead in total national titles unless Arkansas or LSU goes bonkers in track. Which will be tough to do with Nike pouring huge money into the Oregon track program and Florida stepping up their own track program.

Georgia isn't that far behind Florida I think but Florida has seemingly pulled in front of them in all the sports that Georgia used to dominate in.

There are only 2 sports that matter. Everything else is title IV stuff that no one watches.

3rd most popular would be womens' basketball.

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Tennessee, Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi State

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MSU is the only school with a final four appearance.

LSU has 4 final fours

Missouri won their first conference title back in 1917, the old Missouri Valley which was the ancestor of the Big 6 then 8, then 12.

Overall, those MO Valley teams won 4 conference titles, and a couple of those could be considered National Champs. In fact, some thing called the Premo-Porretta Power Poll LINK gave the title to two of those teams.

Mizzou won 3 Big 6 titles, followed by 8 more in the Big 8. Mizzou has also won six conference tourney titles.

Norm Stewart has admitted over the years that he placed much more emphasis on winning the conference title. He viewed the NCAA as gravy, which may explain some of the issues Mizzou's had in the NCAA tourney.

Overall, Mizzou has won:

1. 15 conference titles
2. Six conference tourney titles
3. Been to 26 NCAA's - I think MO and Purdue have the record, or are 1 & 2 in most appearances without advancing to the Final Four
4. Been to 4 Elite Eights
5. & kind of sort of won 2 mythical National Titles (I don't count those) (If I looked at that right, Alabama, and yes, Kentucky also have one of these)

Bonus: Mizzou will finally get a new coach within the next couple of months and Mike Alden isn't hiring him! Alden - great with football, really, really bad with basketball.

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The "big 6" was coined when we went to divisions and the top 3 in each side were desigated

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I remember the 6 being discussed back when the SEC still had Georgia Tech and Tulane. The modern version seems to have evolved from the 1990's realignment.

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With basketball you have UK then a gap so large you can't even see the end of it.

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:kige:

UK is the past, the present, and the future

Hogs were good with Eddie and Nolan, but have fallen since
Gators are the Billy Donovan show and not much else

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Like in football there is a Big 1 and then a 2nd tier.

Unlike football, the 2nd tier is only 2-3 schools as opposed to 4-5 schools.

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While partly true, this type of thinking is GREATLY exaggerated by Bama fans. Alabama is certainly way out front in football at #1... but its not even in the same ballpark compared to how out front at #1 Kentucky is in basketball.

As for football, Alabama is the #1 program of all-time at a national level... but you have Tennessee at #9, LSU and #11, and Georgia, Auburn, and Florida all in the mix in some order at #13, #14, and #15. All six of these could be described as "elite" programs in the college football world. Even still, Texas A&M, Arkansas, and Ole Miss are all somwhere in the Top 25 or 30 all-time, with Mizzou somewhere in the 30-35 range.

So yes, while Bama is the clear #1 in the league, there are a ton of other SEC programs that have had major success on a national level.

SEC basketball is a different story. Nationally speaking, Kentucky is a Top 2 or 3 program... possibly #1 all-time (along with UCLA and UNC).

Behind them, Arkansas and Florida are somewhere between #20 and #25 all-time. LSU comes in somewhere in the 30s. And those are probably your only Top 50 programs of all-time, nationally speaking, from the SEC. Missouri, Tennessee, and Alabama would be next, but they are probably all between #50 and #60.

While some will argue that there are more teams in basketball, they would be correct. Being Top 25 in basketball is probably about like being Top 10 or 15 in football. However, Kentucky's dominance of the SEC is unprecedented compared to other major conferences.

The ACC of old has produced two Top 5 programs of all-time (UNC and Duke) with NC State also in the Top 20.... and that doesn't even count newish member Louisville who is easily a Top 10 program.

The BIG 10 has produced Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Michigan... all Top 20 programs all-time. Plus Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue are all easily Top 30 or Top 40. Newcomer Maryland is Top 30.

The BIG 12 has produced Kansas (Top 5) along with Oklahoma State (Top 15), Kansas State, and Oklahoma (both Top 25). Texas is also just outside the Top 25 all-time.

The PAC 12 has produced UCLA who is Top 3... along with Arizona (#15-#20 range), plus newcomer Utah (Top 20). Honestly its probably the closest to the SEC in terms of being top-heavy.

But while the SEC has just 3 Top 30 programs all-time (Kentucky, Florida, and Arkansas), even it needs some asterisks by two of those teams. The majority of Arkansas' basketball success came while they were a member of the Southwest Conference. In fact, 80% of their Elite 8 appearances came prior to their joining the SEC. While their lone National Title came in Year 2 of being in the SEC, their program has fallen off significantly since the mid-90s.

And while Florida has got to be counted as a Top 25 program all-time thanks to their two national titles, they have by far the fewest NCAA Tournament appearances and Sweet 16 appearances of any Top 25 program. This is a program that counts its first NCAA Tournament appearance in 1989. So historically speaking, they are actually a bottom-feeder in the SEC.

Kentucky just outright dominates this league. And its domination makes Bama's lead in football look minuscule.

All I got from that is LSU is in the top 5 or 3 for all 3 sports.

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Overall, Mizzou has won:

1. 15 conference titles
2. Six conference tourney titles
3. Been to 26 NCAA's - I think MO and Purdue have the record, or are 1 & 2 in most appearances without advancing to the Final Four
4. Been to 4 Elite Eights
5. & kind of sort of won 2 mythical National Titles (I don't count those) (If I looked at that right, Alabama, and yes, Kentucky also have one of these)

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That is nice and all, but does not mean anything. Cats have been to 56 NCAA tourneys so 26 is not real impressive.

Mizzou needs to

#1 Beat UK at least once (Cats are 9-0 vs Tigers since 1960)
#2 Go to a Final Four (Cats have been to 17)

Pretty sure UK does not have a "mythical" title in basketball. UNC claims a Helms Natty but UK choses not to.