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re: Saban's Bama QBs....and how LSU is just a QB away
Posted on 1/12/16 at 9:59 am to lsufball19
Posted on 1/12/16 at 9:59 am to lsufball19
I mean in college. LSU (or any other team with talent) could make a championship run with him
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Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:00 am to gatorguru
You're right. I have long said that the biggest difference between the two programs is on the lines.
When you own the LOS, you don't need a superstar QB.
When you own the LOS, you don't need a superstar QB.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:03 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Well, LSU DID get to the championship game with 3 of the 6 you listed, two of the other three still have a chance as they will only be a senior and junior next season.
So Zach Mettenberger, a two-year transfer, could be the only one on that list not to make it to a championship game for LSU.
Now, why can't the gators win anything?
In no way trying to hate or rile you up. I just repeatedly hear LSU complain about QB play and the options they have at the position. Maybe it's warranted, maybe it's not.
I can't help but think how Saban has been to back to back CFP with guys (Coker & Sims) who would find themselves in spring QB competitions at several SEC schools over the last 2 years.
Since u mentioned my gators, neither Sims nor Coker would have started game 1 of 2014 over Driskel or game 1 of 2015 over Grier...but they both end up leading their teams to the CFP.
Maybe all that means, if you're great all around the board, you only need to be average at QB and just manage the game.
Running Fournette on 1st and 2nd and then asking Brandon Harris to complete a back shoulder corner fade to keep a drive alive is asking him to do much more than manage the game.
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 10:05 am
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:15 am to gatorguru
quote:
In no way trying to hate or rile you up.
I just thought it was odd that you would mention Saban taking LSU to the championship with three QBs that Miles has taken LSU to the championship with.
Your whole OP seemed to just be saying, "Saban would have taken LSU to the championship game with Mettenberger." Yeah, so?
quote:
I just repeatedly here LSU complain about QB play and the options they have at the position
Louisiana doesn't produce a lot of pro-style QBs. Typically LSU has drawn their passing QBs from Texas. That has seemed to have dried up as of late. Yet Miles continues to run a pro-style offense.
quote:
Running Fournette on 1st and 2nd and then asking Brandon Harris to complete a back shoulder corner fade to keep a drive alive is asking him to do much more than manage the game.
Maybe, but then asking Harris to complete a simple screen pass seems to be asking too much of him. I don't know if it's nerves or what, but the kid can't seem to complete the short touch passes.
But as far as what you're hearing LSU fans say about where their team is in respect to winning championships, does it sound any less reasonable that what we're hearing from Tennessee fans? Why aren't we hearing from Florida fans about how close they are? Florida should be competing for the SEC every year.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:17 am to c on z
quote:
While issue for the most part for the most part for LSU has been development of QBs, their offensive system nearly guarantees a steep learning curve, and gaps in QB recruiting guaranteed at least 1 season of breaking in a young QB.
As for Bama, while running some pistol based offense has not given that same learning curve, they have had a revolving door of veteran QBs, especially since McCarron. They have recruited at least one QB every year since 2010 at least, and did not guarantee themselves that year where they had to break in a new QB. Having McCarron being a 3 year starter helped there, especially when some of those QBs that they recruited out of HS didn't appear to work out.
Again, Alabama is running this simpler offense with 3rd, 4th, 5th year QB's, and LSU is running their true pro style with 18 and 19 year olds.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:22 am to gatorguru
quote:This may well be one of the best posts that I've seen on this board. Completely correct, with research provided...impressive!
LSU loves to compare itself to Bama in the Saban era.
If you ask an LSU fan the one position that has not been recruited well enough or held them back from matching Bama over the last 10 years, they'll likely tell you QB.
To that I say this. Les Miles doesn't win divisional, SEC, or national titles with John Parker Wilson, Greg McElroy, AJ McCarron, Blake Sims, and Jake Coker as quarterback.
On the contrary, I know Saban could win a championship with Brandon Harris, Zach Mettenberger, Jordan Jefferson, Anthony Jennings, and/or Jarrett Lee.
I do get the comparisons between these teams over this time span. Both have produced Elite Wrs, Elite RBs, Elite Defenses, and Average Quarterbacks.
I'm just confused why LSU puts so much stock and pressure into the QB position while Bama fans and coaches seem to care less about it; it's plug and play for them.
The LSU quarterbacks have to feel that pressure from the fanbase and coaches and it has shown in their play.
Let's look at Rivals recruiting rankings
John Parker Wilson 3 star
Greg McElroy 3star
AJ McCarron 4 star, #7 Pro style passer
Blake Sims, 4star, #33 Athlete
Jake Coker, 3 star, #18 Pro Style Passer
Matt Flynn, 4 star #16 pro style Passer (Saban recruit)
Jarrett Lee, 4 star # 7 Pro Style Passer
Jordan Jefferson, 4 star #8 Pro Style QB (lol pro style)
Zach Mettenverger 4 star, #11 Pro Style Passer
Anthony Jennings, 4 star, #6 DT QB (JT Barrett #7)
Brandon Harris, 4 star, #5 DT QB (Deshaun Watson #1, Will Grier #2, Jerrod Heard #4)
Saban could win NCs with any of the SIX 4-star QBs LSU has had. I think Saban could have won with my gators own Jeff Driskel fwiw. I do understand the frustration with QB play at LSU, but I don't think it's due to lack of talent or recruiting.
Saban just trust his QBs and they trust the process. No way Brandon Harris or Anthony Jennings can't get a Bama team to the CFP, especially if Blake Sims did.
LSU is missing something to get to that Bama level. I may be in the minority, but I don't think that missing piece is QB.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:23 am to wadewilson
quote:
Again, Alabama is running this simpler offense with 3rd, 4th, 5th year QB's, and LSU is running their true pro style with 18 and 19 year olds.
that doesn't really refute the OP, though. That's coaching. LSU coaches ask their QBs to run offenses they can't and are unsuccessful as such. Alabama ask their Qbs to run offenses they can and are conversely more successful.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:24 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
But as far as what you're hearing LSU fans say about where their team is in respect to winning championships, does it sound any less reasonable that what we're hearing from Tennessee fans? Why aren't we hearing from Florida fans about how close they are? Florida should be competing for the SEC every year.
Every team wants solid to good QB play. That usually equals success. I don't think Florida fans would tell you any different. We're still trying to find our first formidable QB since Tebow.
I can't speak for Tennessee as it's been 11 years since I've been remotely concerned with what they're doing. But Florida doesn't routinely compare it's program against another as often as you find LSU doing with Bama the last 10 years.
So since the makeup of the teams have been similar:elite defenses and run games....I thought that Bama's success (and LSU's own success as you pointed out)... makes it reasonable to suggests that you don't need an all world QB; therefore the lack of an all world QB is not what is stopping LSU from doing what Bama just did.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:31 am to gatorguru
You have a good point. I've always said that if Greg McIlroy, AJ McCarron, Sims, etc started their careers at LSU and Lee, Jefferson, Mett, Jennings, Harris, etc started their careers at Bama, they would still win championships while LSU struggled on offense, and would win the same amount of games.
But, one other HUGE difference between Bama and LSU concerning personnel is that Bama has no holes on their O-line, D-line, and LB'ers, while LSU does. There is a pretty significant talent differential at the line of scrimmage between Bama and LSU.
But, back to the point on QB's: Saban has evolved and Miles has not. Saban allows his OC's to create effective offenses while Miles keeps his in the dark ages.
Basically, there is a massive difference in Saban's ability to manage a program and Miles. They are light years apart. Saban is 10 X's the coach Miles is.
But, one other HUGE difference between Bama and LSU concerning personnel is that Bama has no holes on their O-line, D-line, and LB'ers, while LSU does. There is a pretty significant talent differential at the line of scrimmage between Bama and LSU.
But, back to the point on QB's: Saban has evolved and Miles has not. Saban allows his OC's to create effective offenses while Miles keeps his in the dark ages.
Basically, there is a massive difference in Saban's ability to manage a program and Miles. They are light years apart. Saban is 10 X's the coach Miles is.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:31 am to lsufball19
quote:
that doesn't really refute the OP, though.
It's a valid point that the OP didn't research or recognize.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:32 am to gatorguru
You sure do a lot of thinking about LSU.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:45 am to Shakita Bonita
quote:No, you dumb bastard. He's pointing out that your coach should do a lot more thinking.
You sure do a lot of thinking about LSU.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:49 am to gatorguru
quote:
LSU is missing something to get to that Bama level. I may be in the minority, but I don't think that missing piece is QB.
you're right...its the physicality of the OL/DL.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:51 am to gatorguru
quote:
the lack of an all world QB is not what is stopping LSU from doing what Bama just did.
quote:
We're still trying to find our first formidable QB since Tebow.
Interesting.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 10:54 am to gatorguru
quote:
Jordan Jefferson, Anthony Jennings
Saban is tGOAT, but he's not a miracle worker.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 11:00 am to RB10
i think he has a point to some degree....i mean, Saban and staff at least attempt to work to their players strengths. not just line up and say here's what we do, now go out and fit our mold.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 11:02 am to wadewilson
sims and coker are 1st year starters. unless i'm missing something.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 11:03 am to gatorguru
quote:
To that I say this. Les Miles doesn't win divisional, SEC, or national titles with John Parker Wilson, Greg McElroy, AJ McCarron, Blake Sims, and Jake Coker as quarterback.
On the contrary, I know Saban could win a championship with Brandon Harris, Zach Mettenberger, Jordan Jefferson, Anthony Jennings, and/or Jarrett Lee.
Agree 100%.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 11:08 am to gatorguru
What you failed to mention, all the Bama guys won as veterans. Harris, Jennings, Lee, and Jefferson played as true freshmen. LSU has never built the position back up. I honestly don't think Saban could have won a championship with anyone outside if Mett maybe. Those championship qbs from LSU and Bana were all pretty similar outside of Sims because he had better running ability than the rest. You can throw in a tape of Mauck, Flynn, Wilson, McElroy, and Coker and see the same style of play. McCarron was a more gifted passer than the rest.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 11:08 am to caliegeaux
Both as 5th year seniors.
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