re: Mizzou plays kU tomorrow.

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I feel like I had to do that since Sleeping wasn't here.

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Stop being a frick. It's not like ATX is a moron typing a few too many sentences. He's pretty strong in general, makes sense, and is pretty informed. Sure he bloviates, but who doesn't?

I swear this board is like the American electorate. Try to force out the smart people by overwhelming them with morons.

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Which gets funnier still when you learn that one of their Helms "national title" banners, 1922, was a year in which they actually tied with Mizzou for the Missouri Valley Conference title (both teams going 15-1 in league, splitting their games, each beating the other by identical margins), Mizzou having a slightly better overall record, and at season's end Mizzou challenged ku to a one game tiebreaker in KC to determine a real league champion, which kansas declined...that is a season they now retroactively hang a "national title" banner for.

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I did not know this. That's hilarious. And so beaker of them. "Co-Champs!" Amirite??

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I did not know this. That's hilarious. And so beaker of them. "Co-Champs!" Amirite

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I knew about the fact they'd been co-champs for one of the years that ku hangs a Helms banner. But when I read in a college hoops history book the part about Mizzou having actually challenged ku to a tiebreaker game at the end of that season and ku declining (ku's stated reason was that the season was over and it wanted its student athletes to focus on their studies ) my jaw dropped. I would not want Mizzou to hang a banner for a season like that even if the Helms did "award" it to us retroactively, just b/c I'd know if the truth about that season ever got out we'd be a laughing stock.

Thanks. So looks like yeah, if somebody were to put a gun to your head and ask you to pick the most significant "historical rival" for Kentucky in the SEC from a competitive standpoint, Tennessee might take the prize? Looks like their winning percentage against you is slightly better than the shellackings you put on most of the league and it looks to be the longest running series for you too.

I remember when Mizzou hoops stunned 22-0, #1 ranked kansas in 1997 I was reading a UK message board thread at some point and a lot of the UK people were perplexed by ku's loss but several others were pointing to various old Kentucky-Tennessee games as a reminder that these longtime conference rivalries can still produce crazy results. Don't ask why I was lurking on a UK message board in 1997. I lived in Nashville at the time, that's all I will say for now.

Yeah, the most heated rivalries in the SEC have involved UK/UT with Ray Mears as coach, UK/LSU with Dale Brown coaching and UK/Arky when Nolan Richardson was there. Vandy has always been a hot rival as well.

The UK/UF rivalry should be hotter but most UK fans really like Billy Donovan and their fans don't care much for basketball. I'm still hoping Mizzou brings some fire to the league. A good rivalry between the Cats and Tigers would be fun. A Mizzou and Arky rivalry would be great, too.

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Real question, if we were better overall, split the games, and got turned down for the championship...why did Helms award it to them?

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No good answer. The Helms committee was answerable to no one, still is not an officially recognized anything by the NCAA, and did its work back in like the late 1930s or 1940s. There was definitely no modern strength of schedule or statistical analysis or any of that. Without trying to sound like sour grapes, its fair to assume that reputation and subjective program perception probably played a big role in what a group like that was doing at the time, and Phog Allen was in his hey day at kansas then winning tons of games and conf titles. My guess it was just a retroactive recognition saying "Phog Allen sure does kick arse, there wasn't a postseason tournament back then but his teams were really awesome." kansas continued to be dominant in the next 15 years or so from after 1922 to when Helms made its picks. Mizzou on the other hand was extremely good in the 1910s and early 1920s but fell off a cliff in the '30s and '40s so its program street cred had gone by the wayside when the Helms folks were picking. Again though that's just speculation, who knows what the hell was in the Helms folks' heads really.

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UK/LSU with Dale Brown coaching

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Yeah, this was a heated rival for sure. Now, LSU fans have taken their seat at the back of the bus

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The UK/UF rivalry should be hotter but most UK fans really like Billy Donovan and their fans don't care much for basketball. I'm still hoping Mizzou brings some fire to the league. A good rivalry between the Cats and Tigers would be fun. A Mizzou and Arky rivalry would be great, too.

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Yeah I am really happy to be playing UK, we obviously need to do our part and at least get *a* win over you of any kind but sooner or later that will happen by law of averages if nothing else. The Devin Booker angle should make the next few years more interesting even if our program has taken a step back for the time being - Devin's dad and Mizzou legend Melvin Booker has said he will "have to root against his own son" and I don't think he was kidding, gonna be weird for those two at Mizzou-UK games.

What's really funny in that context about Melvin Booker being a beloved old Mizzou player is that the only reason we recruited Melvin was to fill a hole on our roster created back in 1990 when Travis Ford left Mizzou to transfer back home to - wait for it - Kentucky.

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Real question. What's the meaning of 808's sleeping post? I'm a moron

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I'm going to need a reference.

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What was it 1993 when UK had "the comeback" in Baton Rouge? That was the definition of insanity.

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1994
I still cringe, Up by 31 and lose