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re: How does Bama's current run compare to other dynasties in their prime?
Posted on 12/17/15 at 5:33 am to BHMKyle
Posted on 12/17/15 at 5:33 am to BHMKyle
quote:
No reason to re-write history in order to try to elbow out USC from legitimately having a share.
No need to rewrite history. LSU is THE national champion in 2003. BCS Era crowned one true champion every year. It was designed for that. And it did that. AP trophy was nothing more than a moral victory from 1997 on.
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Posted on 12/17/15 at 6:13 am to BHMKyle
quote:
#1Must include at least 2 National Titles during the run
#2 Has to be at least 4 seasons in length
#3 Cannot include consecutive seasons ranked outside the Final AP Top 20
#4 Average Final Rank in AP Poll must be at least Top 10
#5 At least 50% of the seasons must include a Top 5 AP Finishs
#6 Overall winning percentage must be at least 82%
All this BS over LSU/USC and no one stopped to mention that LSU was a dynasty as well:
LSU
Years: 2003-2007 (5 years)
National Titles: 2
Top 5 finishes: 4
Avg AP Rank: 5.2
Total Record: 56-10 (84.4%)
**4-1 Bowl record (3-0 BCS Bowls)
Print the shirts
Also, as impressive as Bama's run is, and it is that, one thing about it that has always seemed to fall a bit short of some of the other runs imo is their lack of a great win streak.
Isn't the longest streak under Saban like 17 games?
Look at all the other "dynasties" and they all have runs in the high 20s and even into the 30s without a loss, except Florida.
The ability to put together week after week of winning performances for extended periods of time with the target of every single team giving you their best shot is something truly special imo, and the one piece of the puzzle that keeps Bama from jumping Miami in the modern era imo and keeps USC right there with them.
Of course, if Bama continues this run for another 3-4 years after this, even if they continue dropping a game every year, it won't really matter, as the longevity will outshine the lack of a truly great undefeated streak imo.
This post was edited on 12/17/15 at 6:40 am
Posted on 12/17/15 at 6:56 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Isn't the longest streak under Saban like 17 games?
19. Not the most impressive win streak, but nothing to sneeze at.
He does have a 23 game undefeated in regulation streak.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 9:22 am to BamaScoop
IF we win this year there will never have been one seen like it before. 4 National titles in 7 years. We SHOULD have had 3 straight in 77,78 and 79 but frankly got screwed out of 77 or that would have been the benchmark.
Anyway, 4 in 7 would be unheard of.
Anyway, 4 in 7 would be unheard of.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 10:14 am to Roses of Crimson
quote:
Anyway, 4 in 7 would be unheard of.
One of your fellow Bama posters in the other thread pointed out that Notre Dame won 4 in 7 - 43, 46,47,49
Posted on 12/17/15 at 10:38 am to BammerDelendaEst
quote:Those were rough times in post WWII - kudos to the Golden Domers!
One of your fellow Bama posters in the other thread pointed out that Notre Dame won 4 in 7 - 43, 46,47,49
Posted on 12/17/15 at 10:38 am to FourThreeForty
Bama? They have a nice little program down there.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 10:44 am to FourThreeForty
If they win this year I have to conclude this is the greatest run in modern college football history. Lots of parity, toughest conference. And sustained success.
They are built to last and will probably be right in the mix next year.
They are built to last and will probably be right in the mix next year.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 11:26 am to WorkinDawg
OU dynasty winning 47 straight is the greatest CFB feat period.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 11:33 am to Dirt Farmer
quote:
OU dynasty winning 47 straight is the greatest CFB feat period.
But those were one-game seasons (Huskers) and bowl tie-ins (not playing the hand-picked next best team) and no conference champ game. Not to diminish it, but I'm more impressed with Bama's run. Until this season they had to run through MNC calibur teams multiple times to earn the right to play the next best team for the MNC.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 11:38 am to WorkinDawg
One game seasons? They played Texas, Nebraska ND etc...Even Missouri was a good game back then. Oklahoma also won 31 games in a row from 1948-1950, then went on the 47 win streak from 1953-57. That's not even counting the dynasty runs in the 70s and 80s under switzer.
This post was edited on 12/17/15 at 11:44 am
Posted on 12/17/15 at 11:40 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Alabama is the undisputed KING of college football and it isn't close.
Pretty much this.
Alabama football
Kentucky basketball
NY Yankees baseball
Some of these are very arguable.
Kentucky basketball trails UCLA by 3 National Titles (11 for UCLA and 8 for UK).
As for Final Four appearances, UK trails North Carolina by 1, and they are equal to UCLA (UNC has 18, UK and UCLA have 17).
As for weeks rated in the AP Poll, North Carolina is first all-time with 846. Kentucky trails slightly with 831 appearances.
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Alabama has the most national titles in college football (10), compared to Notre Dame who has 8... Oklahoma and USC each have 7.
But Alabama trails Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, Nebraska, and Ohio State in all-time wins.
Alabama is tied for 5th all-time in weekly appearances in the AP Poll with USC. Ohio State (853), Michigan (806), Oklahoma (782), and Notre Dame (766) lead Alabama & USC by quite a bit (742).
As for all-time AP Poll Points (counting only FINAL AP rankings), Alabama sits at #3 (964), slightly behind #2 Ohio State (966), and Oklahoma (994).
Prior to Saban arriving at Alabama, the Tide was certainly NOT the all-time King of CFB. As of 2006, Alabama was tied with Oklahoma in Natinoal Titles (7) and Notre Dame had one more (8). At that time, Notre Dame was #2 in the all-time AP Poll, while Oklahoma was #3 all-time. Alabama was #5. Alabama also trailed Notre Dame and Oklahoma in all-time wins.
While I think Alabama probably has the best program resume as of now... if it can be obtained in just 7 years times (since 2009), it can be lost just as quickly.
So while Alabama is certainly in the discussion... and quite possibly the #1 program all-time... there are several other programs in the conversation.
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All this to say, UK Basketball and UAT football don't come close to your other example in terms of pure domination of a sport.
The New York Yankees have 27 World Series Championships... that's more than double #2, the St. Louis Cardinals, who have just 11.
The Yankees have 40 World Series appearances... which is double #2, the Giants who have 20.
They also have the best all-time winning percentage (.569) compared to the Giants (.538), the Dodgers (.525), the Cardinals (.519) and the Red Sox (.517).
The Yankees are far more dominant in their sport than either UK Basketball or Alabama football. It's not even close.
This post was edited on 12/17/15 at 11:47 am
Posted on 12/17/15 at 12:18 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
As of 2006, Alabama was tied with Oklahoma in Natinoal Titles (7) and Notre Dame had one more (8).
As of 2006, Bama had 12 and ND had 11.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 12:28 pm to Crimsonpanther13
quote:
As of 2006, Bama had 12 and ND had 11.
Right. According only to Bama fans who decided to create fake ones from the past sometime during the 1980s. Like the 1941 "title" that produced a 2-loss team that finished #20 in the AP Poll.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 1:13 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
Right. According only to Bama fans who decided to create fake ones from the past sometime during the 1980s. Like the 1941 "title" that produced a 2-loss team that finished #20 in the AP Poll.
1941 is ridiculous but I'll take it as a replacement for the screwing that Bama took in 1966.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 2:40 pm to BHMKyle
Love the stats and the research. Very interesting.
For the sake of discussion, is it possible for three different programs to have dynasties over the same time period? Even though LSU, Florida and USC won multiple championships, was there one true leader?
How is Nebraska not a dynasty in mid 90s? 3 titles in 4 years and an appearance in the "championship game" the year before that.
In my opinion Bama's dynasty started in 2009. If we take it this year, 4 championships in 7 years is better than Miami's 5 in 20 years right? Even 3 in 7 is a better percentage.
Maybe it's a difference in semantics but to me dynasties are when you are on the very top, not when you finished ranked. My 2 cents.
For the sake of discussion, is it possible for three different programs to have dynasties over the same time period? Even though LSU, Florida and USC won multiple championships, was there one true leader?
How is Nebraska not a dynasty in mid 90s? 3 titles in 4 years and an appearance in the "championship game" the year before that.
In my opinion Bama's dynasty started in 2009. If we take it this year, 4 championships in 7 years is better than Miami's 5 in 20 years right? Even 3 in 7 is a better percentage.
Maybe it's a difference in semantics but to me dynasties are when you are on the very top, not when you finished ranked. My 2 cents.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 3:20 pm to FourThreeForty
Bobby Bowden's 14 consecutive seasons of 10 or more wins (152 wins and two NC) is pretty damn strong. Bud Wilkinson at OU in the 40's and 50's. Leahy at ND, same time period. Switzer at OU and Osborne at Nebraska had quite a run.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 3:20 pm to Gongora
quote:
How is Nebraska not a dynasty in mid 90s? 3 titles in 4 years and an appearance in the "championship game" the year before that.
You make good points. Totally overlooked Nebraska. They were without a doubt a dynasty in the mid '90s.
quote:
In my opinion Bama's dynasty started in 2009. If we take it this year, 4 championships in 7 years is better than Miami's 5 in 20 years right? Even 3 in 7 is a better percentage.
Maybe it's a difference in semantics but to me dynasties are when you are on the very top, not when you finished ranked. My 2 cents.
Well then by your own semantics, Bama's dynasty is over. Bama has now not won a title since 2012, and failed to reach the Championship Game both of the last two seasons. Here we are in 2015, and while Bama is one of four teams with a shot, they've not spent a single week of the season #1 in the polls.
So by your more narrow definition, Bama's dynasty is already over.
Now I don't believe it is, but your definition says its that.
What happens if Bama wins the Championship this year, but next year fails to make the playoff. And what if Ohio State goes undefeated and wins the National Title.
They'd have the following 5-year record:
2012: 12-0 #3
2013: 12-2 #12
2014: 14-1 #1 (National Champs)
2015: 12-1 #5 (Estimated finish this year)
2016: 15-0 #1 (Hypothetical National Champs)
How could you not say that Ohio State would be in the midst of a dynasty that began AT LEAST in 2014... if not 2012?
But if Bama wins this year's National Title, then you'd be saying Saban's Dynasty ran from 2009-2015.
So even by your definition, dynasties can indeed overlap.
Unless you are only willing to say that a dynasty is only when a team is truly #1 at the end of the season. If that's the case, then Bama's dynasty ended in 2012 and Ohio State's dynasty ended after last season.
This post was edited on 12/17/15 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 12/17/15 at 4:41 pm to BHMKyle
Absolutely. If Bama does not win another National Championship, then the dynasty certainly is over. It's all about being the best, not being really good. For example, Nebraska had far and away the best program in the mid 90s. No way Miami and Florida State had concurrent dynasties over Nebraska. That just defies all logic.
Posted on 12/17/15 at 4:45 pm to Gongora
quote:
Absolutely. If Bama does not win another National Championship, then the dynasty certainly is over. It's all about being the best, not being really good. For example, Nebraska had far and away the best program in the mid 90s. No way Miami and Florida State had concurrent dynasties over Nebraska. That just defies all logic.
You missed the point of my question. Hypothetically, when would you say the Alabama dynasty started and ended and also when would the Ohio State dynasty start and end if the following scenario happened:
2009: #1 Alabama
2010: #10 Alabama
2011: #1 Alabama
2012: #1 Alabama / Ohio State #3
2013: #7 Alabama / Ohio Sate #12
2014: #1 Ohio State / #4 Alabama
2015: #1 Alabama / #5 Ohio State
2016: #1 Ohio State / #10 Alabama
So what I'm saying is if Alabama wins it all this year, and Ohio State wins it all next year, when did each program's dynasty start and stop?
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