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re: How about this Auburn controversy
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:26 am to DawgsLife
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:26 am to DawgsLife
quote:
If their constituency differs on an issue there is no way they can represent all of their constituency. If they do not vote according to the majority of their constituency, then they can be voted out.
If only we had a solution to this...
Oh, what if we kept religion out of politics?
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Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:26 am to GlossuRabban
quote:
You are comparing an individual student or students praying vs. official, school led prayer.
No, I am comparing a school giving Muslim students a set aside space for organized prayers during school hours. They would not, I can assure you make this accomodation for Christian students.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:27 am to Teague
quote:
The WHOLE point of freedom of religion is that is does NOT have to be the majority. That's the whole fricking point. That's why the persecuted protestants left England and came to America. Now, you want the same thing, but since your favorite religion is in power, it's ok.
What the Freedom From Religion Foundation wants is for everyone, no matter their religion, or lack thereof, to be in the same boat - practice what you want, but leave it out of publicly-funded events.
Dude. I was asked my opinion, not to extrapolate on the law. I gave my opinion. Let Muslims pray in their way and let others pray in their way.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:28 am to DawgsLife
Aaaaand this is how there was marriage inequality until very recently.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:28 am to Teague
quote:
What the Freedom From Religion Foundation wants is for everyone, no matter their religion, or lack thereof, to be in the same boat - practice what you want, but leave it out of publicly-funded events.
The problem is they want that boat to be that nobody practices religion. Period. That may not be the boat everybody wants to be in.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:30 am to DawgsLife
quote:
The problem is they want that boat to be that nobody practices religion. Period
Pretty sure that's not correct.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:30 am to DawgsLife
quote:
The problem is they want that boat to be that nobody practices religion
That's not accurate.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:32 am to DawgsLife
Auburn has been battling tbe REC, the refs, Lady Luck, and themselves all season long. It just makes sense that we are battling Satan, too.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 9:45 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:32 am to DawgsLife
quote:
The problem is they want that boat to be that nobody practices religion. Period.
Again. No. That's not what they're trying to do. They're trying to keep any religion from overstepping its bounds, and to beat them back a little in areas where they have long since overstepped their bounds.
Why would anyone care what you personally believe? They don't. It's where it is overstepping the constitution that it becomes an issue.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:34 am to pvilleguru
quote:
So, if we assume that Christians are correct and want to worship in the way they see fit, there is not a problem with stopping that as long as it is done with compassion and respect?
That's not what I said at all.
Then you need to read our exchange...or if you don't mind, explain in more depth.
As I understood it, you said false ideas are dangerous. Well, I agree, but you should entertain that the Christians ideas just might not be false, and therefore should not be eliminated by the freedom from religion people. I understood you to say it is okay to keep them suppressed as long as it is done with compassion.
Now, if what you meant was that Christians should have compassion for those that disagree with them, then I can agree with you. just as the freedom from religion people should have compassion for those who do not believe as they do. You have a group of people in Wisconsin wanting to dictate how people act in another state. That does not sound like understanding or compassion since the people being affected by Auburn's practices are not the ones complaining.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:35 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Pretty sure that's not correct.
How are they not trying to stop these people from practicing their religion?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:36 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Well, I agree, but you should entertain that the Christians ideas just might not be false, and therefore should not be eliminated by the freedom from religion people.
What if I said the same thing about Muslim or Satanist ideas?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:37 am to DawgsLife
quote:
How are they not trying to stop these people from practicing their religion?
If a cop stops me from taking a shite in the street, does that mean I'm being stopped from taking shits?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:38 am to DawgsLife
quote:
How are they not trying to stop these people from practicing their religion?
Because they aren't. Nobody is stopping anybody from praying.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:41 am to DawgsLife
quote:
I understood you to say it is okay to keep them suppressed as long as it is done with compassion
No. We were talking about in the absence of religion. If after everyone has stopped making decisions based on religion, we were only left with compassion, respect, empathy, etc., we'd be in a better place.
quote:
but you should entertain that the Christians ideas just might not be false, and therefore should not be eliminated by the freedom from religion people.
It very well could be true, but based on how many gods humanity have worshipped in our past, and even present, the likelihood that the Christian god is the one true god is fairly small.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:41 am to Teague
quote:
They're trying to keep any religion from overstepping its bounds,
A team that apparently wants to hold prayer. That is what they are stopping.
Their very name says it all...Freedom FROM Religion.
If an organization were started called "Freedom From Islam" and they tried to stop Muslims from praying at schools or from school lunchrooms from observing Islamic dietary practices, what would you say? because the article I have linked to show where public schools are allowing these things. I haven't seen a single article saying the Freedom From Religion crowd is bringing suit against this.
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:42 am to viceman
quote:
I have zero power over any of this
You could pray about it?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:43 am to GlossuRabban
quote:
Because they aren't. Nobody is stopping anybody from praying.
Correct. It is the excessive piety they are trying to stop.
So, I can assume you agree that Auburn is overstepping the boundaries?
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:44 am to DawgsLife
quote:
So, I can assume you agree that Auburn is overstepping the boundaries?
Yes. And I have personal experience with it as an athlete at Auburn that I have shared in the past on the board.
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 9:45 am
Posted on 10/29/18 at 9:45 am to DawgsLife
quote:
A team that apparently wants to hold prayer. That is what they are stopping.
Their very name says it all...Freedom FROM Religion.
If an organization were started called "Freedom From Islam" and they tried to stop Muslims from praying at schools or from school lunchrooms from observing Islamic dietary practices, what would you say? because the article I have linked to show where public schools are allowing these things. I haven't seen a single article saying the Freedom From Religion crowd is bringing suit against this.
quote:
Muslim prayer in schools Why hasn't the Freedom From Religion Foundation weighed in? What about the American Civil Liberties Union? Their silence is peculiar. I suspect their reaction would have been a bit different had La Plata High School been baptizing children and forcing them to memorize John 3:16.
From a practical standpoint, the answer to this question was easy. FFRF acts on complaints from our members or members of the public, and no one had complained to us about this situation until it was already a lawsuit. But that is not the point Starnes wanted to make. He sought to make us appear biased and paint us as anti-Christian, rather than pro-separation of state and church.
FFRF in fact does take issue with the government promoting or favoring any religion, of course including Islam. Groups seeking to uphold the Constitution may appear to "target" Christians only because we "target" the violators. As the majority, Christians are simply more likely to violate the Constitution.
Pew Research numbers reveal that the U.S. Muslim population is at 1 percent, Jewish at 1.8 percent and Hindu at .7 percent. In contrast, self-identified Christians are at 70.6 percent.
FFRF accordingly receives very few complaints about Muslim violations. We receive very few complaints about Jewish, Hindu, Wiccan or other minority religious entanglements with government, either. When FFRF receives any bona fide complaint about any Establishment Clause violation, we research it and try to take action, depending on the facts and the legal precedent.
This is not just a question of numbers. Of course, the greater proportion of Christians in the population means there is a higher probability any given malefactor is Christian. But in a democracy, where government is structured so that majority rules on certain issues, it is usually the majority that will violate the rights of the minority. In fact, this is precisely why the Bill of Rights exists: to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Read More Here
This post was edited on 10/29/18 at 9:47 am
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