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re: Ex-Mizzou president: Football team threw "gasoline on a small fire"
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:14 pm to scrooster
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:14 pm to scrooster
quote:
Pinkle should have been the leader. He should have sat down with the football team, explained how what they were doing would negatively affect the university for years to come ... and then talked them outta being little spoiled shits in front of the entire nation.
It was rumored that our Strength and Conditioning coach, Pat Ivey, facilitated some meeting between the protestors and some football players. By the time Pinkel was involved, the decision to protest was firmly in a few players' minds. Also, Pinkel knew he would be leaving the game at the end of the season having gotten not good news from the doctor with respect to his prognosis.
Pat Ivey is gone (even after he announced he would be back next year). Pinkel is gone.
I know it seems like there's a lot of easy answers from the outside, but it was a pretty complicated situation with a lot of players and factors that went beyond the facile analysis given here.
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Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:15 pm to JesusQuintana
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/10/22 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:16 pm to the808bass
quote:
It was rumored that our Strength and Conditioning coach, Pat Ivey, facilitated some meeting between the protestors and some football players. By the time Pinkel was involved, the decision to protest was firmly in a few players' minds. Also, Pinkel knew he would be leaving the game at the end of the season having gotten not good news from the doctor with respect to his prognosis.
Pat Ivey is gone (even after he announced he would be back next year). Pinkel is gone.
I know it seems like there's a lot of easy answers from the outside, but it was a pretty complicated situation with a lot of players and factors that went beyond the facile analysis given here.
With this said information, do you feel comfortable knowing that a coach who was a part of all this is now running your football program? Personally, I'd immediately want to clean house completely.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:17 pm to OMLandshark
It depends on his position in all of it. Given that Ivey appears to have been shown the door for his role in it, I'd guess the AD has a pretty good sense of where Odom was at.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:20 pm to OMLandshark
No, Wolffe should have addressed. Should have got out in front of it. Placated the group of students. That's how these things work. This tough guy bravado shite that a lot of you guys want to happen simply isn't the way things work. You can not like it all you want, but at least have enough common sense to realize it.
Really dumb analogy. Pinkel isn't a general. He's a football coach. A football coach that can not operate if he can't connect to black players. Race is a major issue in this country right now. Again, get pissed about it all you like but at least have the clarity to recognize it. You're really fricking dumb if you think a football coach can tell the black players on his team "I don't care about any racial issues, you boys are here to play football. Do that or leave". Would he have liked to? Probably. Would I have liked to see it? Sure. However, I'm smart enough to realize it would have been the kiss of death. He did the only thing he could. I feel bad for him that he was ever put in that situation. He didn't want any part of social activism. He's just a football coach.
Really dumb analogy. Pinkel isn't a general. He's a football coach. A football coach that can not operate if he can't connect to black players. Race is a major issue in this country right now. Again, get pissed about it all you like but at least have the clarity to recognize it. You're really fricking dumb if you think a football coach can tell the black players on his team "I don't care about any racial issues, you boys are here to play football. Do that or leave". Would he have liked to? Probably. Would I have liked to see it? Sure. However, I'm smart enough to realize it would have been the kiss of death. He did the only thing he could. I feel bad for him that he was ever put in that situation. He didn't want any part of social activism. He's just a football coach.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:21 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
You think he didn't try?
It didn't appear so. He held a press conference where he stated he was with them ... not that he disagreed with them but felt he had to back them. He said something about "his kids" but Dads have to keep the kids from making big mistakes.
At least that's the way most of us viewed that.
quote:
Look, I'm not a fan of the current state of our society and how PC everything is but I am aware of it and Wolffe wasn't. Either that or he thought he was above it, or maybe he didn't fricking care. I don't really know, but he fricked this up.
I have to agree with you there. Your President should have been out front getting control of it before it got outta hand. From a physical point of view, shite rarely rolls up hill ... so it wasn't like he didn't have the power to do something about it from the get-go. He screwed up royally in that regard.
quote:
Once it got to the point that Pinkel had anything to do with it it was already well past repair.
Maybe, but who knows. Pinkel could have been the healer ... but he failed to do so. That's just MHO and I type that while admitting to myself that I thought Pinkel was actually a great football coach. I always respected him. It was really a shame he had to go-out like he did and I wish him well fighting his illness.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:28 pm to the808bass
quote:
It was rumored that our Strength and Conditioning coach, Pat Ivey, facilitated some meeting between the protestors and some football players.
I had heard that back when it was all happening. A guy that works with my wife in their European division is a Mizzou letterman and we were in Naples when he told me that. Said Ivey was the ring leader.
Ivey screwed-up if that's the case and he'll have a hard time finding another job with a major program ... which is a shame because he was a big time S&C guy. Too bad for him but, if that really is the case no one will want to touch him for fear of him stirring it up somewhere else as an activist within the program.
S&C coaches have more contact with the players than anyone, even the position coaches, especially during the off season. Ivey betrayed a trust if the rumors are true and it is unforgivable. And, if that really is the case, then Pinkel was fighting a losing battle before it even started ... which may explain some things.
It's all a shame really.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:29 pm to CJM
I'm not getting why people think Mizzou's enrollment will take such a huge hit. I'm sure there will be a few people who choose to go elsewhere, but most of the population doesn't really care all that much. It wasn't a huge televised event. It didn't result in lots of lawsuits and endless 24 hour news coverage. Regardless of what one thinks about the nature of the resolution, it was resolved quickly. AFAICT, there's no ongoing crisis and no suggestion that the university's quality has dropped. All the doomsaying strikes me as overreaction. Most people out there don't give a damn who the president of a given university is and probably don't even remember much about the entire controversy other than some vague recollection that it involved students getting upset about something not particularly well defined, a few football players jumping in,and a couple people losing jobs. Universities have controversies all the time. Missouri's might have gotten a few more looks nationally, but its not like something drastic changed the image of the school.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:31 pm to JesusQuintana
Exactly, if Pinkel opposes the players on a racial issue like that, you can bet your arse that the program would have an incredibly difficult time recruiting black players. People may not like it, but you simply cannot deny the fact.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:32 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
Really dumb analogy. Pinkel isn't a general. He's a football coach.
It's not a dumb analogy at all. A coach really is for all intents and purposes a general. He leads his troops into battle. Sure the stakes are less, but he's still nonetheless a general. If his troops are shitty and insubordinate, then it's on the General and his subordinates. I don't David Petraeous would put up with this bullshite excuse from one of his generals when his army retaliates against him.
quote:
You're really fricking dumb if you think a football coach can tell the black players on his team "I don't care about any racial issues, you boys are here to play football. Do that or leave". Would he have liked to? Probably. Would I have liked to see it? Sure. However, I'm smart enough to realize it would have been the kiss of death.
You've already received it. Your University is going to lose at least half a billion dollars. That's a kiss of death if I've ever heard one. Your team was shite, you weren't going bowling, and your players were knowingly full of shite. If yall were going onto a 10 win season, then those players would have continued busting balls. Pinkel should have called them out on their treacherous bullshite, tell them that while their are some racial tensions on campus that they are no worse than others (actually better) and that this was mostly made up, and then told them he'd revoke their scholarships when they protested. What's 3 million compared to what yall are about to lose?
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:34 pm to scrooster
Ok, I'll tell you this. I know (from a player on the team) that the vast majority of the team wanted nothing to do with. Including a lot of black players. Those that didn't were guilted into support. Pinkel DID try to dissuade them from striking but they weren't going to be moved. A handful of players and a strength coach moved this entire thing along.
Look, you are smart enough to know what is said at a press conference and what really happened can be two wildly different things.
Pinkel tried to distance himself from Wolffe firing. He never wanted any part of that, but he did what he thought he had to do for the health of his football program.
Look, you are smart enough to know what is said at a press conference and what really happened can be two wildly different things.
Pinkel tried to distance himself from Wolffe firing. He never wanted any part of that, but he did what he thought he had to do for the health of his football program.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:35 pm to MIZ_USA
quote:
Exactly, if Pinkel opposes the players on a racial issue like that, you can bet your arse that the program would have an incredibly difficult time recruiting black players. People may not like it, but you simply cannot deny the fact.
Good luck getting them now with your Alumni not paying shite for the next couple of years.
I'll admit its your dirt bag players that are largely to blame here, but should clean house and kick them all out. They ruined your program for the foreseeable future. Any self respecting coach wouldn't coach them unless they could have a cattle prod on them at all times and shock the hell out of these weasels when they remotely frick up.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:35 pm to the808bass
quote:
didn't even know anything was going on on campus unless you watched the news or wandered over to the quad
A friend's son goes there. There was plenty going on when the university granted these crybabies their "safe spaces." Out-of-town "professional" protesters busing in, fire alarms pulled constantly, (white) kids scared to walk across campus for fear of harassment.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:36 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I don't David Petraeous would put up with this bullshite excuse from one of his generals when his army retaliates against him.
David Petraeous has the force of law behind him. Insubordinate can get people thrown in jail. All a college coach can do is kick someone off the team and watch as that kid joins another one.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:36 pm to JesusQuintana
Holy shite. Anyone that thinks being a football coach is similar to being a general is really not worth having a discussion with.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:37 pm to OMLandshark
Lol, we aren't going to lose 1/2 billion dollars.
Jesus dude.
There may be a small decrease in enrollment for a few years then it will completely fall off the map and life will go on.
It's not nearly the issue that people on this board want it to be.
Jesus dude.
There may be a small decrease in enrollment for a few years then it will completely fall off the map and life will go on.
It's not nearly the issue that people on this board want it to be.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:39 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
Click is also suspended and will be fired soon.
Over 100 professors signed a petition backing her for tenure. Plus the school has not been vocal about supporting the student she blatantly assaulted. Mizzou is a black eye.
LINK
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:41 pm to MIZ_USA
The dude is just stupid. I don't know what else to say.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:42 pm to arkiebrian
They haven't? They just suspended her and it will eventually lead to her firing.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 10:42 pm to randomways
quote:
I'm not getting why people think Mizzou's enrollment will take such a huge hit.
Because it's a fact. Graduate School enrollment is already down 20%, and its another 8 months until the new school year kicks off. Freshman is at least down 5% and will be more by the time August hits. Wolfe directly states this.
quote:
I'm sure there will be a few people who choose to go elsewhere, but most of the population doesn't really care all that much. It wasn't a huge televised event.
It wasn't 9/11 or anything, but it was pretty widely covered. More so than any university this century outside of a school shooting at least.
quote:
Universities have controversies all the time.
Yeah, but this a much larger controversy. This is a James Meredith controversy... or at least a controversy that thought of itself as such. It's going to take a while to wash away the shite stains from this debauchery.
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