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re: Civil War nicknames for SEC states..
Posted on 6/27/12 at 11:11 am to TAMU87
Posted on 6/27/12 at 11:11 am to TAMU87
It was just not meant to be. If the Confederates pressed their advantage the first day at Gettysburg and siezed the high-ground, the battle ends differently, if battle orders aren't found late wrapped with cigars, if the Union Navy is captured at Alexandria as it should have been, New Orleans is once again Confederate and the Mississippi River is retaken with the 40 plus Union gunboats we now have. If if and buts were candy and nuts...you get the idea.
1
Posted on 6/27/12 at 11:30 am to dwr353
Agreed, on the what if's. My point was if Johnston, would have survived and completed a decisive Victory at Shiloh, things would have been much different. Grant would have been weaken, and the Confederates would have been more aggressive in the West, making the taking of Vicksburg, more difficult. More importantly the North would have had to put more resources in the West and would have thus had less resource in the East to fight Lee, and the Army of Northern Virginia.
Another big what if would be if Gen. Stonewall Jackson would not have been Wounded/Killed in the evening of the 2nd day of the battle of Chancellorsville would the Confederates been able to take advantage of there position and push through with a very decisive victory, two Months before Gettysburg.
So many what if's...
Another big what if would be if Gen. Stonewall Jackson would not have been Wounded/Killed in the evening of the 2nd day of the battle of Chancellorsville would the Confederates been able to take advantage of there position and push through with a very decisive victory, two Months before Gettysburg.
So many what if's...
This post was edited on 6/27/12 at 11:32 am
Posted on 6/27/12 at 11:51 am to TAMU87
Eh even if the CSA did manage to win the war and gain its independence for a bit I don't think it would've stuck. What I imagine would be slave revolts, supported by the Union, along with Western territorial disputes with the Union or any other of plenty of scenarios would've led to more CSA-USA wars in which the USA would've been able to withstand more than the CSA due to is much deeper resource pool.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 12:16 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
theGarnetWay
True. It's would've been difficult for the CSA to exist independently when their crop was mostly cotton, tobacco, and perhaps beans and peanuts.
Not to factor in lumber issues.
The North would have starved the south of resources, which is what happened during the war anyhow.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 2:03 pm to mizzoukills
Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand...
On Texans in Louisiana:
During the Civil War, regiments from opposing armies frequently faced each other on numerous battlefields, the encounters oftentimes engendering a sense of deadly rivalry. Soldiers in the ranks guarded regimental reputations jealously, and fought for the integrity and honor of their units as strenuously as for country and cause. Two such rival units squared off against each other in Central Louisiana in late spring, 1863.
In August 1862, Maj. Gen. Benjamin F. Butler ordered Union officers under his command to collect several companies of cavalry from among white Unionists and other pro-Northern refugees in New Orleans and the surrounding region. In desperate need of horse soldiers for scouting and courier duty in the Louisiana lowlands, Butler took applications from junior officers eager to raise these units, endeavors for which they would possibly earn promotions in rank. Capt. John Franklin Godfrey, formerly a second lieutenant with a Maine artillery battery, went into the Crescent City, opened a storefront recruiting office, and began assembling his command. “The recruits are mostly foreigners, or men of Northern birth,” he wrote home about his enlistees. They will fight as well for one side as another.” By October, four companies of New Orleans recruits took the field. “I recruited my company in a little over three weeks,” Godfrey noted. “The men are nearly all Germans, a few Irish, and some Americans.”
This odd assortment of troops learned the art of war in the fall of 1862. Armed with Sharp’s carbines, revolvers, and sabers, these independent cavalry companies saw their first action in Brig. Gen. Godfrey Weitzel’s Lafourche campaign. When Nathaniel P. Banks arrived in December and replaced General Butler, part of his reorganization plan included ordering Maj. Harai Robinson, described by one Confederate as a “renegade Texan,” to assemble these independent companies, raise additional scouting units, and create the 1st Louisiana Cavalry.
Of the company commanders in the 1st Louisiana, Capt. Richard Barrett of Company B had risen to the fore as an active and aggressive officer. His specialty was picket skirmishing, and he and his men were proud of their ability to best Rebel horsemen and to bring in prisoners for interrogation. Weitzel had leaned heavily on the services of the independent Louisiana cavalry companies, and after their consolidation Major Robinson would rely strongly on Barrett. “This officer and his company” a Confederate officer noted, “were the especial boast and pride of the enemy.”3
Opposing these blue-clad Louisianans on many fields were the troopers of Lieut. Col. Edward Waller’s 13th Texas Cavalry Battalion, raised at almost the same time as their nemesis. Recruited from counties in southern and western Texas, these men were experienced horsemen but unseasoned soldiers. On September 8, 1862, when Waller’s troops had fought the Federals for the first time at Bonnet Carre, near St. Charles Parish Courthouse along the Mississippi River, the Texans had suffered a disastrous defeat, in part, at the hands of the independent companies that became the 1st Louisiana. The Texans lost most of their mounts and a good deal of their arms and equipment as they fled into the chackbay swamp to escape a superior force of cavalry and infantry supported by gunboats. Effectively neutralized as a military force, the regiment was removed from the Lafourche region until they could reorganize. The retreat took them to Lake Charles and Petit Anse Island, Louisiana Traveling to the rear in improvised transportation, the once proud Texans horsemen and cowboys suffered humiliation at the hands of Brig. Gen. Jean Jacques Alfred Mouton’s Louisiana infantry, who dubbed their Lone Star allies the “cane cart cavalry.”
ETA source:
“The Carnival of Death:”
The Cavalry Battle at
Cheneyville, Louisiana,
May 20, 1863
On Texans in Louisiana:
During the Civil War, regiments from opposing armies frequently faced each other on numerous battlefields, the encounters oftentimes engendering a sense of deadly rivalry. Soldiers in the ranks guarded regimental reputations jealously, and fought for the integrity and honor of their units as strenuously as for country and cause. Two such rival units squared off against each other in Central Louisiana in late spring, 1863.
In August 1862, Maj. Gen. Benjamin F. Butler ordered Union officers under his command to collect several companies of cavalry from among white Unionists and other pro-Northern refugees in New Orleans and the surrounding region. In desperate need of horse soldiers for scouting and courier duty in the Louisiana lowlands, Butler took applications from junior officers eager to raise these units, endeavors for which they would possibly earn promotions in rank. Capt. John Franklin Godfrey, formerly a second lieutenant with a Maine artillery battery, went into the Crescent City, opened a storefront recruiting office, and began assembling his command. “The recruits are mostly foreigners, or men of Northern birth,” he wrote home about his enlistees. They will fight as well for one side as another.” By October, four companies of New Orleans recruits took the field. “I recruited my company in a little over three weeks,” Godfrey noted. “The men are nearly all Germans, a few Irish, and some Americans.”
This odd assortment of troops learned the art of war in the fall of 1862. Armed with Sharp’s carbines, revolvers, and sabers, these independent cavalry companies saw their first action in Brig. Gen. Godfrey Weitzel’s Lafourche campaign. When Nathaniel P. Banks arrived in December and replaced General Butler, part of his reorganization plan included ordering Maj. Harai Robinson, described by one Confederate as a “renegade Texan,” to assemble these independent companies, raise additional scouting units, and create the 1st Louisiana Cavalry.
Of the company commanders in the 1st Louisiana, Capt. Richard Barrett of Company B had risen to the fore as an active and aggressive officer. His specialty was picket skirmishing, and he and his men were proud of their ability to best Rebel horsemen and to bring in prisoners for interrogation. Weitzel had leaned heavily on the services of the independent Louisiana cavalry companies, and after their consolidation Major Robinson would rely strongly on Barrett. “This officer and his company” a Confederate officer noted, “were the especial boast and pride of the enemy.”3
Opposing these blue-clad Louisianans on many fields were the troopers of Lieut. Col. Edward Waller’s 13th Texas Cavalry Battalion, raised at almost the same time as their nemesis. Recruited from counties in southern and western Texas, these men were experienced horsemen but unseasoned soldiers. On September 8, 1862, when Waller’s troops had fought the Federals for the first time at Bonnet Carre, near St. Charles Parish Courthouse along the Mississippi River, the Texans had suffered a disastrous defeat, in part, at the hands of the independent companies that became the 1st Louisiana. The Texans lost most of their mounts and a good deal of their arms and equipment as they fled into the chackbay swamp to escape a superior force of cavalry and infantry supported by gunboats. Effectively neutralized as a military force, the regiment was removed from the Lafourche region until they could reorganize. The retreat took them to Lake Charles and Petit Anse Island, Louisiana Traveling to the rear in improvised transportation, the once proud Texans horsemen and cowboys suffered humiliation at the hands of Brig. Gen. Jean Jacques Alfred Mouton’s Louisiana infantry, who dubbed their Lone Star allies the “cane cart cavalry.”
ETA source:
“The Carnival of Death:”
The Cavalry Battle at
Cheneyville, Louisiana,
May 20, 1863
This post was edited on 6/27/12 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 6/27/12 at 2:09 pm to calitiger
quote:
Because the principal theater was always going to be the east
While this is true of the press and to some politicians I would argue the Western and Trans-Mississippi Theaters were the crucible of the war. The East after 1862 was pretty much a bloody stalemate but the total Union victories of the west turned the tide verse the Confederacy. Johnston's death at Shiloh by the way I agree was a huge blow. He was a brilliant General and aggressive. Beauregard's stopping of the Confederate attack 1st day of Shiloh allowed Buell to reinforce Grant and the rest is history.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 2:28 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
On family ties and Jayhawkers...
My great-great-grandfather joined the 7th volunteer cavalry regiment:
"Major General Richard Taylor authorized the formation of this regiment to operate against Jayhawkers in southwestern Louisiana. Many of the men who joined it were deserters from infantry units, principally the 10th Louisiana (Yellow Jackets) Infantry Battalion. Colonel Louis Bush mustered in the regiment as the 4th Louisiana Cavalry on March 13, 1864, at Moundville, though its organization remained incomplete. The men retreated to Natchitoches in advance of General Nathaniel Banks’s Union army, which had started its Red River Campaign. The regiment did picket duty between Natchitoches and Alexandria and participated in skirmishes at Crump’s Hill, April 2, and at Wilson’s Farm, April 7. About April 11, the regiment accompanied the 2nd Louisiana Cavalry on a raid into the Opelousas and Attakapas region to clear out small bands of enemy soldiers and groups of Jayhawkers. The men had returned to the Red River area by April 22, when they fired on a Union transport about fourteen miles southeast of Alexandria. After a few days in that area, the regiment returned to south Louisiana to recruit and perform outpost duty. From June, 1864, until the end of the war, the men remained in the latter duty, occasionally engaging in campaigns against Jayhawkers or in picket duty near the Atchafalaya River. In October, 1864, the regiment reorganized and changed its designation to the 7th Louisiana Cavalry. Small parties of the regiment, particularly from Companies A and C, made raids into the Bayou Lafourche region in late 1864 and early 1865. These raids had as their objective the acquisition of horses and supplies as well as the harassment of the enemy. The majority of the regiment occupied a camp near Alexandria in May, 1865, when the Trans-Mississippi Department surrendered; but some men received their paroles at Franklin."
My great-great-grandfather joined the 7th volunteer cavalry regiment:
"Major General Richard Taylor authorized the formation of this regiment to operate against Jayhawkers in southwestern Louisiana. Many of the men who joined it were deserters from infantry units, principally the 10th Louisiana (Yellow Jackets) Infantry Battalion. Colonel Louis Bush mustered in the regiment as the 4th Louisiana Cavalry on March 13, 1864, at Moundville, though its organization remained incomplete. The men retreated to Natchitoches in advance of General Nathaniel Banks’s Union army, which had started its Red River Campaign. The regiment did picket duty between Natchitoches and Alexandria and participated in skirmishes at Crump’s Hill, April 2, and at Wilson’s Farm, April 7. About April 11, the regiment accompanied the 2nd Louisiana Cavalry on a raid into the Opelousas and Attakapas region to clear out small bands of enemy soldiers and groups of Jayhawkers. The men had returned to the Red River area by April 22, when they fired on a Union transport about fourteen miles southeast of Alexandria. After a few days in that area, the regiment returned to south Louisiana to recruit and perform outpost duty. From June, 1864, until the end of the war, the men remained in the latter duty, occasionally engaging in campaigns against Jayhawkers or in picket duty near the Atchafalaya River. In October, 1864, the regiment reorganized and changed its designation to the 7th Louisiana Cavalry. Small parties of the regiment, particularly from Companies A and C, made raids into the Bayou Lafourche region in late 1864 and early 1865. These raids had as their objective the acquisition of horses and supplies as well as the harassment of the enemy. The majority of the regiment occupied a camp near Alexandria in May, 1865, when the Trans-Mississippi Department surrendered; but some men received their paroles at Franklin."
Posted on 6/27/12 at 2:28 pm to Tackle74
I agree, Tackle. I would even argue that the South's fate was sealed with the Union capture of Fort Donelson and Fort Henry, as this opened up Tennessee and the lower South to eventual invasion. These Union victories also ensured that Kentucky would remain a border state. The South's border state strategy was a disaster. The invasion of Maryland failed to produce the uprising of southern sympathizers that Richmond hoped for; Missouri's secessionist government was forced into exile; and the one organized invasion of Kentucky ended in defeat at Perryville. We can debate this topic forever. The important thing to remember is that our country emerged stronger from the crucible of this horrible conflict. Every nation experiences "growing pains" and ours was no exception. Not to belabor the point but this has been a great thread. I've learned a tremendous amount. Thank you all. 
Posted on 6/27/12 at 2:48 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
More on "Jayhawkers" and Texans in Louisiana:
The first evidence of Louisiana’s Jayhawkers appeared with the Union invasion in May, 1863 of the Bayou Teche country between Opelousas and Brashear (Morgan) City. And very quickly three groups of men could be identified, all of whom the Confederates labeled as "Jayhawkers." The first of those were draft dodgers and conscripts, who hid out in the swamps. One writer explained their intents and way of life as follows:
...Many honest and hard working men deserted or evaded the draft because they never owned a slave, never participated in the planter’s way of life, and decided not to defend it. They are not to be confused with the bands of lawless men, composed of deserters and draft dodgers, who organized into bodies which they called...guerrillas. They were mounted and armed...2
A third group whom the Confederates also called Jayhawkers were Unionists, whom General Nathaniel Banks permitted to take the oath of allegiance, and he organized them into a regiment known as the First Louisiana Scouts, who did little in 1864 except exact "revenge against their former neighbors..."3 More about the Louisiana Scouts will be recorded later.
In May, 1863, a half dozen or more Texas Confederate units were transferred to General Taylor’s command to help defend against the new Union threat advancing north along the Bayou Teche. And the principal supply route from Texas moved by train from Houston to Beaumont, by steamboat from Beaumont or Sabine Pass to the Niblett’s Bluff Quartermaster Depot, and then by wagon from the depot to Opelousas. Wagon traffic along that artery was two-way, loaded wagons moving to the east and empty wagons returning to Niblett’s Bluff to reload. And that route’s adjacency to the bottomlands of the Sabine, Houston, Calcasieu, Mermentau, and Vermilion rivers, as well as Bear Head and Beckwith creeks and Bayous Serpent, Nezpique, des Cannes, and Plaquemine Brule, made it an ideal location for Jayhawkers to prey on the Confederate supply line. In time many more Texas and Louisiana deserters, also draft dodgers, free Negroes, and escaped slaves, joined the many Jayhawker bands along that route.
Two 1863 letters from a Lake Charles clergyman explained the social disarray that existed in Southwest Louisiana when the effects of the draft and General Taylor’s retreat before the Union forces were felt. A lengthy quote from the first letter, dated August 23, 1863, follows:
Things in Lower Louisiana: ...The facts presented to us leave no doubt that there is a system of wholesale stealing going on in that (Calcasieu) section of the country that would astonish most of our readers, and we regret to say that Texans are largely concerned in the thieving operations. Gangs of Negroes have been enticed away from their owners by various false representations, and brought into different parts of Texas and sold... Some of them have run away from their seducers while being brought into Texas, and being unacquainted with the country, are now occasionally seen in gangs, wandering about, nearly starved to death... Indeed their statements are often confirmed. Texas officers and soldiers, as well as private citizens, are often implicated in these disgraceful operations...
...We fear many of our citizens have been badly swindled by buying slaves thus stolen from Louisiana plantations... It is further stated... that a large amount of the property captured by our troops after the retreat of (Gen. Nathaniel) Banks has been appropriated, by wagon loads, by certain officers and individuals, and we have reason to believe that some of this property has been sold in the (Houston) black market...
...It is stated that the Louisiana deserters who ran away to escape the service are now in the Calcasieu River bottom, and with the few Negroes in their company, number about 700. They are said to be very desperate and are perpetrating the most horrible outrages from time to time, which are retaliated on them occasionally by our troops in a manner almost too shocking to relate...4
Some Notes on the Civil War Jayhawkers of Confederate Louisiana
Southwest Louisiana has ALWAYS been an exceedingly lawless place.
The first evidence of Louisiana’s Jayhawkers appeared with the Union invasion in May, 1863 of the Bayou Teche country between Opelousas and Brashear (Morgan) City. And very quickly three groups of men could be identified, all of whom the Confederates labeled as "Jayhawkers." The first of those were draft dodgers and conscripts, who hid out in the swamps. One writer explained their intents and way of life as follows:
...Many honest and hard working men deserted or evaded the draft because they never owned a slave, never participated in the planter’s way of life, and decided not to defend it. They are not to be confused with the bands of lawless men, composed of deserters and draft dodgers, who organized into bodies which they called...guerrillas. They were mounted and armed...2
A third group whom the Confederates also called Jayhawkers were Unionists, whom General Nathaniel Banks permitted to take the oath of allegiance, and he organized them into a regiment known as the First Louisiana Scouts, who did little in 1864 except exact "revenge against their former neighbors..."3 More about the Louisiana Scouts will be recorded later.
In May, 1863, a half dozen or more Texas Confederate units were transferred to General Taylor’s command to help defend against the new Union threat advancing north along the Bayou Teche. And the principal supply route from Texas moved by train from Houston to Beaumont, by steamboat from Beaumont or Sabine Pass to the Niblett’s Bluff Quartermaster Depot, and then by wagon from the depot to Opelousas. Wagon traffic along that artery was two-way, loaded wagons moving to the east and empty wagons returning to Niblett’s Bluff to reload. And that route’s adjacency to the bottomlands of the Sabine, Houston, Calcasieu, Mermentau, and Vermilion rivers, as well as Bear Head and Beckwith creeks and Bayous Serpent, Nezpique, des Cannes, and Plaquemine Brule, made it an ideal location for Jayhawkers to prey on the Confederate supply line. In time many more Texas and Louisiana deserters, also draft dodgers, free Negroes, and escaped slaves, joined the many Jayhawker bands along that route.
Two 1863 letters from a Lake Charles clergyman explained the social disarray that existed in Southwest Louisiana when the effects of the draft and General Taylor’s retreat before the Union forces were felt. A lengthy quote from the first letter, dated August 23, 1863, follows:
Things in Lower Louisiana: ...The facts presented to us leave no doubt that there is a system of wholesale stealing going on in that (Calcasieu) section of the country that would astonish most of our readers, and we regret to say that Texans are largely concerned in the thieving operations. Gangs of Negroes have been enticed away from their owners by various false representations, and brought into different parts of Texas and sold... Some of them have run away from their seducers while being brought into Texas, and being unacquainted with the country, are now occasionally seen in gangs, wandering about, nearly starved to death... Indeed their statements are often confirmed. Texas officers and soldiers, as well as private citizens, are often implicated in these disgraceful operations...
...We fear many of our citizens have been badly swindled by buying slaves thus stolen from Louisiana plantations... It is further stated... that a large amount of the property captured by our troops after the retreat of (Gen. Nathaniel) Banks has been appropriated, by wagon loads, by certain officers and individuals, and we have reason to believe that some of this property has been sold in the (Houston) black market...
...It is stated that the Louisiana deserters who ran away to escape the service are now in the Calcasieu River bottom, and with the few Negroes in their company, number about 700. They are said to be very desperate and are perpetrating the most horrible outrages from time to time, which are retaliated on them occasionally by our troops in a manner almost too shocking to relate...4
Some Notes on the Civil War Jayhawkers of Confederate Louisiana
Southwest Louisiana has ALWAYS been an exceedingly lawless place.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 3:35 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Interesting read on the Jayhawkers. One of my ancestors Joseph Carriere served in the 18th La while his nephew was the infamous Ozeme Carriere.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 4:19 pm to calitiger
quote:
I agree, Tackle. I would even argue that the South's fate was sealed with the Union capture of Fort Donelson and Fort Henry, as this opened up Tennessee and the lower South to eventual invasion. These Union victories also ensured that Kentucky would remain a border state. The South's border state strategy was a disaster. The invasion of Maryland failed to produce the uprising of southern sympathizers that Richmond hoped for; Missouri's secessionist government was forced into exile; and the one organized invasion of Kentucky ended in defeat at Perryville. We can debate this topic forever. The important thing to remember is that our country emerged stronger from the crucible of this horrible conflict. Every nation experiences "growing pains" and ours was no exception. Not to belabor the point but this has been a great thread. I've learned a tremendous amount. Thank you all.
Agree on all points, great thread..
Posted on 6/27/12 at 4:39 pm to Tackle74
The war for the Confederacy, IMO, was certainly lost in the west. Fort Donelson was a critical blow to the cause.
"Bully for Bragg..He's hell on retreat!"
"Bully for Bragg..He's hell on retreat!"
Posted on 6/27/12 at 4:46 pm to dwr353
quote:
Interesting read on the Jayhawkers. One of my ancestors Joseph Carriere served in the 18th La while his nephew was the infamous Ozeme Carriere.
Dude, no shite...
The notorious St. Landry Parish Jawhawker leader, Ozémé Carriere, who was killed towards the end of the war by the commander of the 7th Louisiana Cavalry, COL Louis A. Bringier.
LINK
...that's the very unit my g-g-grandfather, "Papa Joe" Girouard, was in. (He also happens to be Yvette Girouard's Great Grandfather.)
7th Regiment Volunteer Cavalry
Weird.
Was Ozeme a member of the Anti-Vigilantes in Vermilion Parish when they had their fort raided by the vigilantes? Ole Papa Joe was in on that raid too. Looks like your boy was a real badass.
On September 3, 1859 the vigilante wars were brought to an end
when Major St. Julien with a force of seven hundred men, armed with a
brass cannon which they had named “Betsy” and which had the capacity of
four-pound shot, attacked the eighteen hundred group of outlaws at their
fort. The attack was a tremendous success for the vigilantes. Most of the
outlaws fled never to return. Two hundred anti-vigilantes were captured,
and all but eighty were released on their pledge that they would leave the
area and never return. The “unfortunate eighty” were thrashed unmercifully
as an example to any would-be outlaw and released. The vast majority of
these outlaws fled to the west.
shite was wild back in the day.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 6:59 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
All great stuff, I love history.
Thanks
Thanks
Posted on 6/27/12 at 7:27 pm to AU86
quote:I don't really know how anyone could argue that.
The war for the Confederacy, IMO, was certainly lost in the west. Fort Donelson was a critical blow to the cause.
If Tennesee had stayed under Confederate control (either from the beginning or with a pushback after Shiloh) Kentucky would have been much more in play, and if Kentucky falls, you have the chance to play havoc with boat traffic along the Ohio.
If Vicksburg/Memphis/NOLA never fall, the Confederacy still has use of the Mississipi as a supply route.
If Chattanooga never falls, Atlanta is never touched, and that was the biggest lynchpin in the endgame was losing Atlanta and then Savannah.
Finally, if the western theater had turned out differently, Grant would never have become a hot item, would never have been given The Army of the Potomac, and Lee might well have forced a stalemate.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 7:59 pm to calitiger
I grew up in that area. Much of my family still lives near where Anderson was killed. Maybe that's why the Yankee label rubs me wrong. About a far north as you will find CSA cemeteries. Also why the SEC seems like a perfect fit. Take away the slavery issue. My people were too poor to own slaves. We were southern when/where southern wasn't cool.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 8:14 pm to calitiger
quote:
It's an interesting battlefield, nicknamed the Battle of the Cotton Bales
At the risk of a duplicate correction without reading through, it was the battle of the HEMP bales. Still a lot of wild hemp on the Missouri river bluffs in that area. Not fit to smoke if you were wondering.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 8:41 pm to Aux Arc
quote:
Maybe that's why the Yankee label rubs me wrong. About a far north as you will find CSA cemeteries. Also why the SEC seems like a perfect fit. Take away the slavery issue. My people were too poor to own slaves. We were southern when/where southern wasn't cool.
I'm with you. My family was definitely on the side of the CSA, just like they fought for the US (Virginia and North Carolina) in the Revolution. My mom's great-grandfather died somewhere in Alabama during the Civil War - he'd been wounded and wrote a letter saying he was hiding from Yankees under someone's porch. They never heard from him again. Presumably he's in an anonymous grave somewhere.
I grew up in Cape Girardeau, MO. We considered ourselves southern. The traditions are southern, the culture is southern. My dad considered being called a Yankee insulting.
And I have to say - this is one of my favorite threads on this board in the time I've been here. The Petrino guest book and Lexington police scanner threads were epic in their hilarity. But this thread actually taught me something, and makes me feel even more at home in the SEC.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 9:13 pm to semotruman
I agree this is one of my favorite threads too. With a family history as the northern most part of the confederacy it is all interesting to me. Missouri is still divided when it comes to this. I'm glad we are in the SEC for personal cultural reasons. A little odd that it would matter at all to my generation.
Posted on 6/27/12 at 9:36 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
I am amazed at the resembalance of Ozeme to some of my Carrirere cousins. Hate to say that however. Family tradition holds that he went outlaw to avoid conscription. I have never seen his picture before. As a side note, bad arse kind of ran in the family. My great-grandfather's brother(Ozeme's nephew) shot a local prosecutor on the second floor of the courthouse, dove out a window, landed on some hedges, and ran off. He served a couple of years for it (prosecutor lived). When he got out of jail, no one messed with him. When the depression hit, the local bank failed. He showed up at the bank holding a Winchester, they found money to pay off his account. Oh well, I've rambled on enough.
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