re: Can we agree to the following method for National Champions? The SECR Method

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AP is a vote so it is flawed since it is opinion, especially when they voted before all games were played.

I think any undefeated season should be recognized as a perfect season.

If a team was perfect, they earned something. When a team has to rely on voters to gain recognition, it is something less than perfection.

I hereby claim all undefeated seasons as championships.

So since 1992 in the SEC, Auburn has 3 championship seasons (1993,2004,2010), Bama has 2 (1992, 2009), Tennessee 1 (1998).

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It's your thread. Make up your mind.

When did I say that AP titles don't count?

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I hereby claim all undefeated seasons as championships.

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Couldn't help but notice that you omitted 1966 Alabama with your proclamation. Not only were they undefeated and untied, they were the only undefeated and untied team of that year and they were the two time NCs of the previous two years.

Also our 1945 team was likewise undefeated as was r of our Rose Bowl Champs, although the 1926 team did have a tie, but it was in the RB itself.

Yes, I completely agree that the Crimson Tide has nine championships. That is quite an achievement for your football program. You should be very proud. Throw the other six out the window along with all the sweatshirts, tee shirts, hats, car stickers, billboards, toilet covers,boxers, and panties that all have fifteen on them.

I've always figured that what you, me or the guy next door wants to count doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things. Therefore, coming up with criteria of what counts and what doesn't is a pointless exercise.

What matters more in the scheme of things is how the schools, NCAA and media has viewed things and compare titles on that criteria, though coming up with a satisfactory quantitative measure is not possible.

For instance, the media in general, and most schools, tend to view USC as winning a national title in 2003. While some people steadfastly deny that any title outside of the AFCA title shouldn't count, the prevailing opinion of the time is that USC won a title with the AP poll.

As for the comparative aspect, Alabama claims a title because they won Houlgate in 1941, while Notre Dame won Houlgate in 1927 and doesn't claim a title. It's fair to say, that in that instance, and in others, Alabama is a little looser in their claiming criteria than Notre Dame is. You can say Alabama has more titles, so long as you remember that tidbit.


Something to remember about the NCAA is that it's an organization, not a person with a single opinion. It's not unusual to see opposing opinion coming from the "NCAA". That's because in organizations, you have different people, and as the years go by different people are in the organization.

In 1992, the NCAA come up with criteria about which titles they would choose to count and which titles they would not count. Because this was the official word of THE organization of college athletics, we could take that criteria and run with it, but as different people have taken over the organization, a comparable list today would look different. Even in the "official" organizations, you have varying opinions.

One thing that's very important to me is that you take into account organizations that were highly respected in their time. In the 60s, the title granted by "Football Writers Association of America" were as respected as the AP or the UPI. To me, because they aren't as valued now, it seems silly to ignore the convention at the time if a team chooses to claim it (and all did). In the 30s, the AP used to release the results of Dickinson's poll yearly and the winning team got a (travel) trophy. I see no reason why we shouldn't count that now, even though most people now have never heard of it.

To me, a historical look at "titles" should always include respect for historical viewpoints.

AP named the champion before the bowl games until 1968 (with the exception of 1965), which makes any championship by a bowl loser suspect in my opinion.

That being said, that's what they did.

Don't give a good goat plop. Can't fight the media......

That would be quite a long list.

36 Minnesota no bowl (B10 teams weren't allowed)
37 Pittsburgh no bowl
40 Minnesota no bowl (B10 teams weren't allowed)
41 Minnesota no bowl (B10 teams weren't allowed)
42 Ohio State no bowl (B10 teams weren't allowed)
43 Notre Dame no bowl
44 Army no bowl
45 Army no bowl
46 Notre Dame no bowl
47 Notre Dame no bowl
48 Michigan (B10 teams weren't allowed to be in consecutive Rose Bowls)
49 Notre Dame no bowl
50 Oklahoma lost bowl
51 Tennessee lost bowl
52 Michigan State no bowl
53 Maryland lost bowl
56 Oklahoma no bowl (not sure why)
57 Auburn banned
60 Minnesota lost bowl
64 Alabama lost bowl
66 Notre Dame no bowl
74 Oklahoma banned

Edit: And if you add in the Coaches poll:

54 UCLA no bowl (P12 repeat rule)
65 Michigan State lost bowl
70 Texas lost bowl
73 Alabama lost bowl