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re: Auburn's Excuse of Being Young Doesn't Add Up
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:36 am to NorthGwinnettTiger
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:36 am to NorthGwinnettTiger
quote:I think we will probably sign one more with this year's class if Trotter does indeed hang it up.
Next year, my guess is the three QBs you'll have on the sideline is Moseley, Frazier & Zeke Pike...with Pike most likely being red-shirted.
1
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:36 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
FWIW
Auburn youth=/=LSU youth
LSU has far more elder players and players who have expierence. so your comparison does not work
Point taken. Having senior QBs makes a bigger difference than most think. We also have a lot of experience on the OLine and guys like Brandon Taylor, a senior in the secondary.
We have leaders sprinkled throughout the team that give strength to the young guys. So, that has worked for us.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:38 am to WDE24
quote:
Next year, my guess is the three QBs you'll have on the sideline is Moseley, Frazier & Zeke Pike...with Pike most likely being red-shirted.
I think we will probably sign one more with this year's class if Trotter does indeed hang it up.
Is Frazier the future? I keep hearing people here say that he should play in the bowl game and that Auburn should just turn things over to him. I haven't really seen him run the team or do more than a play here or there.
Winning the bowl game is a big deal for the offseason, though, as far as recruiting and momentum go. I imagine Chizik will try to win with what he has and spend the Spring working on the future.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:39 am to AlaTiger
You will have to forgive me. Any name with ALA in front of it usually means troll. You may discuss it all you want. Do I think youth plays a part?absolutely. Was I disappointed in the progress the kids made over the year? Yes.
However, with the leap in production in 2009, the NC in 2010, The loss of so many leaders and starters, a lot of underclassmen playing in 2011 make it difficult to come to a conclusion on what the real problems were. I don't have enough complete information to determine whether coaching is lacking, or if the problems were in fact due to youth. Chizik deserves his chance to prove his claim of youth is correct. He took a right step in letting Roof go, and hopefully his new DC is the right choice.
2012 will go along way in clearing up the claims of youth versus development imo.
However, with the leap in production in 2009, the NC in 2010, The loss of so many leaders and starters, a lot of underclassmen playing in 2011 make it difficult to come to a conclusion on what the real problems were. I don't have enough complete information to determine whether coaching is lacking, or if the problems were in fact due to youth. Chizik deserves his chance to prove his claim of youth is correct. He took a right step in letting Roof go, and hopefully his new DC is the right choice.
2012 will go along way in clearing up the claims of youth versus development imo.
This post was edited on 12/13/11 at 10:40 am
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:40 am to AlaTiger
For the sake of having a civil discussion:
When your team loses
1. Heisman winning QB
2. 4/5 starting OL who have all been starters for multiple years
3. All 3 starting receivers
4. 2/3 starting LB's who have been starting for 3-4 years
5. 3/4 starting DB's who have been starters for multiple years.
6. 3/4 starting DL
let me know how that team turns out. I realize how LSU is a young team also, but their youth for the most part contributed a good bit last year, and isn't counted on to be all of the team. Our entire team is young and inexperienced.
I did however, think they would be better this year, especially late in the season, and that I do blame our coaching staff for.
When your team loses
1. Heisman winning QB
2. 4/5 starting OL who have all been starters for multiple years
3. All 3 starting receivers
4. 2/3 starting LB's who have been starting for 3-4 years
5. 3/4 starting DB's who have been starters for multiple years.
6. 3/4 starting DL
let me know how that team turns out. I realize how LSU is a young team also, but their youth for the most part contributed a good bit last year, and isn't counted on to be all of the team. Our entire team is young and inexperienced.
I did however, think they would be better this year, especially late in the season, and that I do blame our coaching staff for.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:42 am to AlaTiger
quote:Too soon to tell. One of the strange things about the coaching this season was the way they used Frazier. They wasted his redshirt year to allow him to run the wildcat a handful of times each game. We haven't yet seen him run the offense, so no one knows what he can do at the position. He certainly looked like he wasn't prepared as far as reading defenses and understanding the speed of an SEC secondary in the few times he actually did throw the ball. I would like to see him play a good bit as QB, not Wildcat, in the bowl game.
Is Frazier the future? I keep hearing people here say that he should play in the bowl game and that Auburn should just turn things over to him. I haven't really seen him run the team or do more than a play here or there.
Winning the bowl game is a big deal for the offseason, though, as far as recruiting and momentum go. I imagine Chizik will try to win with what he has and spend the Spring working on the future.
IMO the QB competition for next year starts now.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:43 am to AlaTiger
quote:
AlaTiger
Somsings not right
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:45 am to AlaTiger
The real problem with the youth that AU had this year is that in addition to so many players being young, many of them were in the worst possible positions, namely the offensive and defensive line.
There is no other position than lineman, both offensive and defensive, that develops more and benefits greater during off-season conditioning. The difference between a freshman or sophomore to a junior or senior on the line is huge. this is due to these guys getting bigger & stronger as a result of the controlled and professionally done dietary, exercise and weight programs that all major programs have. No matter how many stars a lineman has out of high school, there is simply no way he will be in the same condition as a veteran lineman or have had even a portion of the conditioning he will get at the collegiate level during the off-season.
Look no further than Auburn's offensive line last year for a prime example. Those guys who were so great and so instrumental in making Auburn's offense so productive last season were the same underclassmen who in 2008 looked virtually as inept as our line did in 2011. The difference is in off-season conditioning. It's importance cannot be stressed enough.
Also, consider the fact that on the field you really have three key leadership positions. For the offense it's QB and center. For defense the key leadership position is usually mike linebacker. We had a true freshman at center and sophomores at QB and a good portion of the season at MLB as well.
I know many will say this is just an excuse, but really it is what it is. Perhaps in a weaker conference or even in the weaker Eastern division Auburn would have gone 8-4 or maybe even 9-3, but Auburn plays in the toughest division of the toughest conference in the nation, a division that going into the final week of the season featured the number 1,2 and 3 ranked teams in the nation. Considering that Auburn started the season with 27 freshmen and sophomores on the two deep, going 7-5 is actually better than should be expected and indeed is better than most experts said they'd do in 2011.
There is no other position than lineman, both offensive and defensive, that develops more and benefits greater during off-season conditioning. The difference between a freshman or sophomore to a junior or senior on the line is huge. this is due to these guys getting bigger & stronger as a result of the controlled and professionally done dietary, exercise and weight programs that all major programs have. No matter how many stars a lineman has out of high school, there is simply no way he will be in the same condition as a veteran lineman or have had even a portion of the conditioning he will get at the collegiate level during the off-season.
Look no further than Auburn's offensive line last year for a prime example. Those guys who were so great and so instrumental in making Auburn's offense so productive last season were the same underclassmen who in 2008 looked virtually as inept as our line did in 2011. The difference is in off-season conditioning. It's importance cannot be stressed enough.
Also, consider the fact that on the field you really have three key leadership positions. For the offense it's QB and center. For defense the key leadership position is usually mike linebacker. We had a true freshman at center and sophomores at QB and a good portion of the season at MLB as well.
I know many will say this is just an excuse, but really it is what it is. Perhaps in a weaker conference or even in the weaker Eastern division Auburn would have gone 8-4 or maybe even 9-3, but Auburn plays in the toughest division of the toughest conference in the nation, a division that going into the final week of the season featured the number 1,2 and 3 ranked teams in the nation. Considering that Auburn started the season with 27 freshmen and sophomores on the two deep, going 7-5 is actually better than should be expected and indeed is better than most experts said they'd do in 2011.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:46 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
You will have to forgive me. Any name with ALA in front of it usually means troll.
Understandable. I came on here in 2005 as a lurker and 2006 officially when it was just LSU fans - before Saban to Alabama and the SEC Rant was started. I am an LSU fan who lives in Alabama, so I just picked "AlaTiger."
If I were choosing a name now, that wouldn't be it.
quote:
However, with the leap in production in 2009, the NC in 2010, The loss of so many leaders and starters, a lot of underclassmen playing in 2011 make it difficult to come to a conclusion on what the real problems were. I don't have enough complete information to determine whether coaching is lacking, or if the problems were in fact due to youth. Chizik deserves his chance to prove his claim of youth is correct. He took a right step in letting Roof go, and hopefully his new DC is the right choice.
Chizik absolutely deserves the chance. Standing at a distance, I can't tell exactly what is going on, but I am guessing that it is more than just youth.
Roof needed to move on, in my opinion. The defense should be better than it is. We all knew that about Crowton and we've seen a big difference in a year on offense.
quote:
2012 will go along way in clearing up the claims of youth versus development imo.
No doubt.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:47 am to AlaTiger
quote:
Well, it was unintentional. I think this board needs some counseling.
quote:
Auburn's Excuse of Being Young Doesn't Add Up
That started things down the incorrect path, then.
It is one thing to analyze a team and determine that they are young, but talented. Thus, you believe that they should have played better than they did. etc.
It is quite another to START out with the "excuse" and "doesn't add up" stuff.
If you are talking too loud in a restaurant, you MIGHT react well to me saying quietly "sir, can you please keep it down?".
i doubt you will be very cooperative if I shout "HEY, DUDE!! STFU!!!"
Same sentiment....different approach
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:50 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I did however, think they would be better this year, especially late in the season, and that I do blame our coaching staff for.
I guess that is what I am trying to get a handle on. I do not discount how much you guys lost. It was a lot. I just think there are other issues.
Maybe with replacing Roof, you will be able to get at the problems on defense more clearly. I am not anti-Roof, because I don't know enough about him.
I have written before that I wonder why Chizik doesn't have more impact on the defense, since he is a defensive specialist. I see Chizik more like I do Saban: a defensive minded coach who lets Malzahn run the offense. I guess we will see as time goes on. Chizik has suprised me though in that I think he approaches his head coaching more like Miles in that he is more of a CEO. So, his assistant hires are obviously very important.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:52 am to AlaTiger
quote:
I understand that Auburn has a young team and they lost a lot last year. But, I think their struggle is more that they were totally dependent on one of the best players in a generation or two and after losing Cam, they are lost.
LSU is also a young team. Our core of playmakers are sophomores, basically. But, this is one of the most dominant teams we've seen in a while.
Being young doesn't matter as much as the Auburn people are saying. Being young, untalented, and having poor coaching DOES make a big difference, though, and that is what I think is really happening at Auburn. Plus, they have no QB at all, and LSU fans can tell you how bad that hurts from our experience in 2008 and 2009.
Auburn is the youngest team in Div I football, LSU is kinda young but AU is signifcantly younger.
LSU's key players are seniors and RS seniors or RS juniors. Also this very same LSU team that is so dominant got run out of JHS last year, AU took a knee instead of going up 31-17 and with better special teams play last year AU beats LSU by another TD as well. So quickly do people forget LSU last year was very very young and they got beat up badly in several games but special teams prevented it from being blowouts like AU had this year.
AU was actually doing ok until Cooper went down on the OL, when he went down AU's OL was basically the worst in Div I football of all the major programs. It is hard to run any offense behind an OL that can't block. When the passing game was able to make decent throws the receivers dropped them, EB was injured for several games this year and was never 100% after the injury.
When you have sophomores at the DT spot and NT spot with freshmen being your rotation due to the upper classmen not playing well enough that doesn't look good from a season standpoint. Nick Fairley was forgetable his sophomore year but we all know what happened his junior year. AU filled a lot of roles with fresh starters that had minimal playing time and expected them to do well.
The defense made progress at times but after the UGA game it was obvious a change was needed, they somewhat recovered in the second half of the Ark game but struggled again against UGA. AU will be fine but anyone with a brain knew this would be a bad year, when the experts predicted 4-5 wins and AU pulls 7 I'd say that's a decent year.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:53 am to AlaTiger
Chizik is more hands on than say Mack Brown, but he is definitely more of a CEO than Saban. He wants things done his way, but he allows his assistants to coach. Honestly though, I have seen a decent amount of improvement in our young guys. The DT's are finally starting to realize that they have to use sound technique if they want to do anything (however they do forget a good bit still). Unfortunately, as the competition has gotten better, and our flaws have been exposed, it does not seem like there has been much improvement.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:54 am to AlaTiger
quote:
I see Chizik more like I do Saban:
they are different. Chizik is a CEO type coach. he lets his cordinators do their work without much interference. Problem on D was that we won the NC last year and couldnt really get rid of roof. You saw him start t take control a bit more during the USCe game and on. the problem there was inexpierence, injuries and depth started to kick in, couple that with that lack of Offense production and the d was just plain worn out
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:54 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
Auburn's Excuse of Being Young Doesn't Add Up
That started things down the incorrect path, then.
It is one thing to analyze a team and determine that they are young, but talented. Thus, you believe that they should have played better than they did. etc.
It is quite another to START out with the "excuse" and "doesn't add up" stuff.
Ok. Point taken. Admittedly, I didn't think it through effectively. My language did not rightly display my intentions.
I do disagree with the "being young" thing being the whole story, which is why I started the thread. But, I was responding to general sentiment that I had heard here in Alabama and did not intend to degrade Auburn's whole fanbase.
I was pretty upset with Auburn last year regarding the whole Cam Newton thing, but that is past and things have returned to normal in my mind in that I respect Auburn, their fans, and the games we play against them. They are a good rival, not a hated one, and I have lots of Auburn friends here, obviously.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:56 am to AlaTiger
quote:
AlaTiger
Its all cool. I'm sorry that I took it out of context before ASKING you for clarification
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:58 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
I see Chizik more like I do Saban:
they are different. Chizik is a CEO type coach. he lets his cordinators do their work without much interference.
Yeah, I see that now. I should have said that "I saw Chizik more like I do Saban." As time has gone on, I've realized he is more of a CEO, which can be very successful, as Miles has proven.
You just have to have the right coordinators.
quote:
Problem on D was that we won the NC last year and couldnt really get rid of roof.
Maybe we will see a difference now. If Auburn fans are like LSU fans, they can't stand not having a great defense. We can tolerate putrid offense, but not a porous defense. Auburn has the same tradition and I imagine you guys are similar.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 10:59 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
Its all cool. I'm sorry that I took it out of context before ASKING you for clarification
No problem. My skin is thick on this board.
I am capable of flaming, no doubt, and have done it before, unfortunately. So, I need to be more aware of that. This was a good reminder.
This post was edited on 12/13/11 at 11:00 am
Posted on 12/13/11 at 11:02 am to AlaTiger
quote:
If Auburn fans are like LSU fans, they can't stand not having a great defense. We can tolerate putrid offense, but not a porous defense. Auburn has the same tradition and I imagine you guys are similar.
You should have been in the stadium this season on third downs.
Posted on 12/13/11 at 11:02 am to rangers911
quote:
Auburn is the youngest team in Div I football, LSU is kinda young but AU is signifcantly younger.
Ok. I didn't know that they were the "youngest." That's good info to have and sheds more light.
quote:
Also this very same LSU team that is so dominant got run out of JHS last year, AU took a knee instead of going up 31-17 and with better special teams play last year AU beats LSU by another TD as well. So quickly do people forget LSU last year was very very young and they got beat up badly in several games but special teams prevented it from being blowouts like AU had this year.
True. Auburn was so clearly the better team that game, but our punter kept us in it. It was 17-17 and we had the ball on our 40 with 7 minutes to go, but we couldn't move the ball. You guys scored after that and it was over.
We did finish 11-2, though, so even though we had to piece it together, it gave us a lot of hope for this season.
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