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Attention atheists: Science says you're probably wrong.

Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:25 am
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:25 am
LINK

quote:

The same year Time featured the now-famous headline, the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion—1 followed by 24 zeros—planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion—1 followed by 21 zeros—planets capable of supporting life.


quote:

What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting.

Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest . . . . We should quietly admit that the early estimates . . . may no longer be tenable.”

As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here.


quote:

The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all.


quote:

Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology . . . . The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”
Posted by DrunkenStuporMan
The Mothership
Member since Dec 2012
5855 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:38 am to
In.
Posted by td01241
Savannah
Member since Nov 2012
22848 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:45 am to
Sweet post sheep.
Posted by CrimsonChin
the gutter.
Member since Feb 2010
5857 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:47 am to
As a confessed atheist I struggle with this issue. I think I am going to give God a chance.
Posted by reggierayreb
Germantown
Member since Nov 2012
16969 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:47 am to
Your God is an awesome God
Posted by ISEN_AG
ThunderWolf Manor
Member since Aug 2013
1929 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:24 am to
A whole lot of butthurt by the religious folks these past few days.
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
37825 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:26 am to
The older I get, the less stock I put into my Christian upbringing.

However, I do not understand choosing to identify as an atheist rather than an agnostic. Why not just say "hey, there could be a higher power of some sort I guess", not think about it anymore, and go on with your life. Unless it's an ego thing, which seems to be the obvious conclusion.
Posted by PepaSpray
Adamantium Membership
Member since Aug 2012
11080 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:32 am to
For you douche bags posting thread after thread after thread. You're not changing anyone's mind. I believe what I believe and you can't change it.

I'm a Christo-Buddhist who rejects the bastardized Saturnalia/winter-solstice holiday that is used to help retail stores end the last quarter.

I instead celebrate a combination of Festivus and Hannukah. I have a menorah at the end of a pole.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90653 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:51 am to
I identify as Christian because it's values and morals that are taught align with my views. However, I think there are many flaws in organized religion stemming from man being the ones who wrote the scripts and having personal agendas to accomplish, mostly political.

There is so much info and scripts redacted by the church that the common folk will never see. I think at one time Islam and Christianity and other religions were all one in the same and that Man destroyed it for political gain and pitted one group against another by tweaking the teachings. I think there is a lot more to the story of Jesus and why he was crucified than we were ever told. It's possible he really was a false prophet and that's why the Jews killed him. You're basically taking the words of his followers as truth regarding his miracles and resurrection without any documentation of such happenings from unbiased sources. Which is why it's called faith. Still though, there's so many scenarios that could have been the real truth that we may all be wrong. Hell the Jews might be the only correct ones, they are Gods chosen people after all.

That said I think it's ignorant to claim with certainty there is no God. If you look at the earth and how perfect it is and how it operates, it makes no sense that it occurred randomly. I think one only has to look at humans' capability of advanced thinking, emotion, reason, and innovation to understand we were specifically created in the image of someone to be supreme over any other life forms
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:57 am to
You just want to persecute my Pastafarian Faith. If you people won't listen to reason, maybe you should get ready for your Hell full of stale beer and diseased strippers!
Posted by DrunkenStuporMan
The Mothership
Member since Dec 2012
5855 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:01 am to
quote:

I have a menorah at the end of a pole.





Very suspicious.

Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90653 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Hell full of stale beer and diseased strippers!



This is supposed to be a punishment?
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:06 am to
This article was written for the religious section of the paper.

I don't see how anything you quoted makes the case for the existence of God.

See arguments against the existence of God LINK /

They are pretty strong.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 9:32 am
Posted by PepaSpray
Adamantium Membership
Member since Aug 2012
11080 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:18 am to
quote:

Very suspicious
ya got me.

It needs 9 if we're doing it right.
Posted by TideCPA
Member since Jan 2012
10370 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:37 am to
quote:

The older I get, the less stock I put into my Christian upbringing. However, I do not understand choosing to identify as an atheist rather than an agnostic. Why not just say "hey, there could be a higher power of some sort I guess", not think about it anymore, and go on with your life. Unless it's an ego thing, which seems to be the obvious conclusion.


Most atheists think belief in a god is absurd. Why would they say "well, I mean I guess there could be one or more" when they don't believe it? Atheism is literally a lack of belief in a god.

For a believer it would be akin to someone approaching you and saying they have an invisible lobster on their head. Would you say "that's ridiculous" (making you the equivalent of an atheist) or "I guess you could have an invisible lobster on your head; I just don't know" (making you the equivalent of an agnostic)?
Posted by olddawg26
Member since Jan 2013
24593 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:39 am to
The same astronomical chances can be said for you being the sperm that found the egg. Of all the ancestors in human history, and all the times dudes nutted and didn't get your relatives pregnant, a perfect unbroken string reaches all the way back to your primordial parents. Everything had to line up EXACTLY perfect for you to be born, and for the internet to be created, and for me to actually be typing this message to you. Yet, here we are, through the odds, and still perfectly explainable through natural occurrences. A personal god isn't needed.


"Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here."
Posted by PepaSpray
Adamantium Membership
Member since Aug 2012
11080 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:44 am to
In the case of exponential odds for my existence...

It might be the proof that there is no God, considering all the better people who could have possibly been born, yet HERE I AM.

The world got screwed.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:46 am to
quote:

The same astronomical chances can be said for you being the sperm that found the egg. Of all the ancestors in human history, and all the times dudes nutted and didn't get your relatives pregnant, a perfect unbroken string reaches all the way back to your primordial parents. Everything had to line up EXACTLY perfect for you to be born, and for the internet to be created, and for me to actually be typing this message to you. Yet, here we are, through the odds, and still perfectly explainable through natural occurrences. A personal god isn't needed.


You realize you make my argument stronger with this statement, right? The astronomical chances for the 10,000 or so chemical reactions to successfully and completely happen during the 9 months of conception/pregnancy is outrageous. But in order for the universe to be created, and earth to have life, is an even greater statistical improbability. Its the equivalent (as stated in the article) of flipping a coin 10 quadrillion times and it landing on heads every time. And your supposedly reasonable and ration explanation is "ah, the wonders of random chance"?
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:51 am to
quote:

Why not just say "hey, there could be a higher power of some sort I guess", not think about it anymore, and go on with your life.
Good question. The answer to that question according to Jesus is that we are all sinners. God is perfect and demands that sin be punished by eternal death/damnation. Therefore, Jesus died as the substitute for everyone who chooses to acknowledge him as their substitute. Christianity is the only belief that acknowledges sin as a problem and offers a solution.

Agnosticism acknowledges God but believes he is not involved in that creation. What other person is there that lives like that. Any person who makes/invents/creates something is always heavily involved, often micromanaging. There is no logical way God would create all of this and then not be involved.

If atheism is correct, when I die I have lost nothing. Same with agnosticism. The same cannot be said for Christianity. See my signature for more details.
Posted by olddawg26
Member since Jan 2013
24593 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:55 am to
If there's a chance of it, even quadtrillions of times, its STILL more probable than magic.


You're not taking into consideration all of the failed life that has arisen. All of the doomed stars and planets that have come and go for an infinite amount of time. Considering there was something before the BB almost 15 billion years ago, something we can't fathom, this "random chance" at life has been happening, and failing, every nanosecond. Every rain puddle or RNA protein shell has a potential for life. Just doesn't happen.

Life as we know it didn't get one shot at this. It has been trying to flourish since the dawn of time. Its evolution, and always trying to be better.

10 quadtrillion heads in a row doesn't need a god to happen. Magicians in the sky are a 0 percent chance.
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