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re: Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:36 am to SummerOfGeorge
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:36 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Yea, that's a great point.
Also, this is clearly choosing between a Mercedes and a Lexus. Neither is a bad choice. Both are superb. I really hope Harbaugh goes to Michigan. Would just make CFB more fun.
Thank you. I have restored faith in this board 
I was just pissed at both sides being arrogant pricks when at this point the question of "who is better" is a great debate
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Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:37 am to LSU82BILL
quote:
But Saban has only won championships when he has had a huge advantage when it comes to the talent of the personnel.
Why does this only apply to Saban? You can make the same argument about Pete Carroll at USC and Urban Meyer at Florida. Both of those dominated the recruiting wars in their day and won 2 titles...yet Saban wins 3 at Bama but only because he's got great talent? I don't think Bama's talent was any better than USC's or UF's back in the early to mid-2000's...
And how has Saban been winning this year? While we've got Amari Cooper and Landon Collins, this was supposed to be more of a rebuilding year. We won the SEC with a 5th year senior QB that's a converted Safety/RB who never played a meaningful snap at QB till this year. Our corners have been very prone to the long ball, our FG kicking game is struggling again...and our OL, while still pretty good, isn't the dominant run-blocking force it's been in the past few years. I don't see a huge advantage in talent as far as this year goes...
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:39 am to lsupride87
quote:
No, you must be. LSU was the #13 program historically before Saban ever stepped foot on campus. Here is why I personally think Harbaugh is better. Now I could be wrong, and I certainly dont think it is crazy to say Saban is better:
So IMHO, what he did at Stanford his better to the comparable situation Saban had in MSU
Now clearly Harbaugh was also better than Saban in the NfL
So, considering Jim has been better comparably in his first two stops, I think it is logical to think he would do better in the third comparable situation, a power Ncaa school
I love the passion of your argument and agree with you that nobody thought Saban was what he is now in 2001. But to say that what Saban did at LSU was something LSU fans expected is laughable. He not only won a title he left the gas in the tank for Miles to win another despite Miles best effort to lose it. LSU is still repeating the benefit of Saban's time in BR.
CJH might be the next Saban, but only an idiot would take him today over Saban. If Saban took over a program tomorrow they would compete for a national title in 2 or 3 years. CJH might take UM and might return them to their former glory, but it is much more likely he will bring energy and get them close but not win anything. His history suggest as much.
There is little debate about which one is better. It is Saban.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 9:41 am
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:39 am to Phat Phil
Jim Harbaugh walked into a gold mine in San Francisco. All of the pieces were already in place for him to do good things there. They were among the most talented rosters in the NFL but lacked the coach who had the skills to turn that talent into wins on the field.
It's not like Harbaugh stepped into an impossible scenario when he took the job with the 49ers. He had lots of talent on that roster.
It's not like Harbaugh stepped into an impossible scenario when he took the job with the 49ers. He had lots of talent on that roster.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:41 am to Tigerman97
quote:50 years old. If I am right and he is better, I can keep him for 20 years
CJH might be the next Saban, but only an idiot would take him today over Saban.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:42 am to Tigerman97
quote:I have no idea how you can say this. You would have said the same about Spurrier over Saban in 2001, and you would have turned out wrong. You would have said the same about Rockne over Bear in the 50s, and you would have turned out wrong.
There is little debate about which one is better. It is Saban.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 9:43 am
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:44 am to lsupride87
quote:
I have no idea how you can say this.
One coach has 4 national championships, as well as 5 conference championships. The other has, well, nothing in the way of hardware.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:47 am to lsupride87
quote:
50 years old. If I am right and he is better, I can keep him for 20 years
You sound like an Enron executive in the late 90's. Speculating on what might be verses dealing with what really is...
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:47 am to RollTide1987
quote:Rockne over the Bear, Spurrier over Saban, and I can go on for eternity. We arent asking who is more accomplished, we are asking who is better. The younger coach will always be less accomplished starting out
One coach has 4 national championships, as well as 5 conference championships. The other has, well, nothing in the way of hardware
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:49 am to Tigerman97
quote:This whole thread is based on speculation. One coach has coached 13 years at a power Ncaa school, one coach has 0. Both sides are speculating. The only non speculating fact we have is Harbaugh is better at coaching in the NFL
Speculating on what might be verses dealing with what really is
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:54 am to lsupride87
quote:
Well, he went 12-1 at Stanford, which is usually good enough to get a shot at the title. Just got unlucky it was a year with two undefeated.
My point was about sustained success. Harbaugh can clearly win at the highest level. He has proven that.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:07 am to lsupride87
quote:
We arent asking who is more accomplished, we are asking who is better.
And so you are putting a coach with no hardware in the same league as Rockne, Bryant and Saban? Yeah...give me a break. You have to win before you can say you are better. Harbaugh hasn't won anything yet.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:14 am to lsupride87
quote:
The only non speculating fact we have is Harbaugh is better at coaching in the NFL
Which has far less relevance in college, because in the NFL he has someone else making personnel decisions for him. In college, those decisions are all on the head coach and no one else. When you define "coaching" in college, you have to include recruiting.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:18 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:I agree. Was just pointing out this whole thread is based on speculation
Which has far less relevance in college, because in the NFL he has someone else making personnel decisions for him. In college, those decisions are all on the head coach and no one else. When you define "coaching" in college, you have to include recruiting.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:24 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
My point was about sustained success. Harbaugh can clearly win at the highest level. He has proven that.
Zero Pac 12 conference championships, one NFC championship, zero NFL championships. I guess we have different definitions of "winning at the highest level". Are the NFL and the Pac 12 the highest levels of competion in football? The NFL, sure. The Pac 12? Close to the highest. Did he win a lot of games at those levels? Sure. Did he win at the highest level in those leagues? Absolutely not.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:28 am to Aman
quote:
Who cares? Saban is great at what he does. Have fun debating something that doesn't matter.
whoaaaa
so butthurt
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:28 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:I would say making the Super Bowl and 2 NFC championships is winning at pretty high levels. I would also say going 12-1 and winning the Orange bowl is a pretty high level. If the year he went 12-1 he happens to make a title game because their isnt undefeated's, does it give you more warm and fuzzies?
Did he win at the highest level in those leagues? Absolutely not.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:30 am to BamaGradinTn
give it a rest
Harbaugh is a phenomenal coach, and if he were at Bama he'd be winning NCs left and right too
he's about the only one I can think of that I'd consider on the level of Saban. I also think Saban would have had similar results as Harbaugh at had he been at Stanford. You can't compare the Vanderbilt of the west coach to a program that lives and breathes football
Harbaugh is a phenomenal coach, and if he were at Bama he'd be winning NCs left and right too
he's about the only one I can think of that I'd consider on the level of Saban. I also think Saban would have had similar results as Harbaugh at had he been at Stanford. You can't compare the Vanderbilt of the west coach to a program that lives and breathes football
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:31 am to cas4t
quote:
he's about the only one I can think of that I'd consider on the level of Saban.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:32 am to lsupride87
quote:
I would say making the Super Bowl and 2 NFC championships is winning at pretty high levels.
When was his second NFC championship? And there's a big difference between "pretty high level" and "highest level" that the other poster mentioned.
Harbaugh doesn't even have Mike Shanahan's resume.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 10:34 am
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