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Hiesman Voting a Sham
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:11 am
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:11 am
Maybe this should be on the More Sports Board but It is no way soccer related and posters over here understand the subject. For me doubts arose the year Payton Manning was jobbed. The other day Gary Danielson stated why he bowed out of Hiesman voting. he pointed out the double and negative voting that takes place. Leaving a player off of your ballot intentionally. In essence a voter can vote for his guy in 1st place and leave the obvious 2nd place guy completely off of his ballot essentially having two votes. In addition to that voters have started using their votes to garner personel attention. Kevin Scarbinsky of the Birmingham news is a prime example. He voted Ro McClain 1st, Ingram 2nd. IMO this was done to merit attention for himself. He knew that his vote would get people talking about him. I don't think he trully feels that McClain is a legit 1st place Hiesman candidate. I think he used his vote as an editorial piece. Scarbinski wants to be the story not report it. While he is an editor and opinion pieces are what he writes for a living, I don't think the Hiesman vote should be used as such a tool. Other voters have an agenda. Take the voter from the TN paper, the 3 from the Jackson, MS paper and the 1 from the LA paper that completely left Ingram off of their ballots all together. Kinda hard not to come to the conclusin that personal bias played a role.
Yes this discussion originated on Finebaum yesterday, and I realize that as a BAMA fan my opionion is going to be considered biases in itself. Yet, I was curious as to if any others had came to these same conclusions about the validity of the Hiesman voting.
Yes this discussion originated on Finebaum yesterday, and I realize that as a BAMA fan my opionion is going to be considered biases in itself. Yet, I was curious as to if any others had came to these same conclusions about the validity of the Hiesman voting.
9
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:13 am to 4nmylifetime
I cant wait to hear the Gumps complaining when SUH or GERHART win the Heisman over Ingram.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:14 am to 4nmylifetime
Welcome to the real world of sports and politics
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:15 am to msukb79
quote:
msukb79
Yeah. Who ya'll got there, by the way?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:17 am to arrakis
quote:
Take the voter from the TN paper, the 3 from the Jackson, MS paper and the 1 from the LA paper that completely left Ingram off of their ballots all together.
Ingram is a great player, but these guys saw what I saw when Bama played Auburn. You can put in Richardson or HELL even COffee and still have good production from the RB position for Alabama due to their bad arse O-Line
SUH- Beast dominated everybody all year
Gerhart- Beast playing behind a FAR inferrior O-line thank INgram
McCoy- QB for the other team playing in the National championship game
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:19 am to msukb79
quote:
Who ya'll got there, by the way?
Personally I think that Anthony Dixon at Mississippi State meant more for his team than Ingram did. He averaged more yards per game than Ingram, and without him I know state would have struggled their asses off. While Bama without Ingram still would have won due to Great Defense and Superior O-Line and great WRs
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:21 am to 4nmylifetime
I actually don't care who a person votes for. If Scarbinski (a horrible writer) wants to vote Rolando, then more power to him. I'm sure beano Cook voted for SOMEONE from Notre Dame if he still has a vote, so that aspect of voting doesn't bother me.
What I dislike is the 1,2,3 preference being used for negative voting (as you described), and the voter who foolishly send their votes in early. I read that 100+ ballots were submitted before the Championship game weekend. The votes are done electronically now, so I don't know why the Heisman committee even opens the system to allow votes before the games are completed. And how can a voter be so clueless as to send in his vote before a weekend in which four of the top candidates are going to be involved in the biggest game of their season?
What I dislike is the 1,2,3 preference being used for negative voting (as you described), and the voter who foolishly send their votes in early. I read that 100+ ballots were submitted before the Championship game weekend. The votes are done electronically now, so I don't know why the Heisman committee even opens the system to allow votes before the games are completed. And how can a voter be so clueless as to send in his vote before a weekend in which four of the top candidates are going to be involved in the biggest game of their season?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:22 am to msukb79
quote:All the more reason for you to understand why there is a regional bias in awards like the Heisman. If any and everyone of this years candidates played at Miss State, they would not be candidates. The SEC has to stick together and support our own every chance we get.
Personally I think that Anthony Dixon at Mississippi State meant more for his team than Ingram did. He averaged more yards per game than Ingram, and without him I know state would have struggled their asses off.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 9:24 am
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:23 am to msukb79
If I am not mistaken the Heisman trophy is for the best all around football player in the country...look at the list of previous winners...that should tell you the whole thing is a sham....I think Mark Ingram is a great back but he does not deserve the Heisman...heck he isn't even the best back on Bama's team...Suh deserves the award...
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:25 am to Aubie83
quote:
The SEC has to stick together and support our own every chance we get
I love the SEC as much as anybody, but If I was a sportswriter and had a Heisman vote, I would vote as follows
1. Toby Gerhart
2. Ndomakong Suh
3. Mark Ingram
IMHO I think that those three are interchangable depending on how you look at them.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:30 am to 4nmylifetime
I think Ingram is a beast, but I would vote:
1. Suh
2. Gerhart
3. McCoy
4. Ingram
I actually agree with msukb on the issue, considering the talent behind Ingram. Not saying that should or should not be a factor, just how I feel on the situation.
1. Suh
2. Gerhart
3. McCoy
4. Ingram
I actually agree with msukb on the issue, considering the talent behind Ingram. Not saying that should or should not be a factor, just how I feel on the situation.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:30 am to 4nmylifetime
If there was one defensive player that ever deserved to win a Heisman, it's Charles Woodson. Peyton didn't win because he could never beat Florida while Woodson led Michigan to a national title that year. Now, it's not Peyton's fault that Fulmer always got badly outcoached by Spurrier. Florida also had Bob Stoops running the defense which made things even tougher.
Still, 0-4 is 0-4. Woodson was one of the greatest defensive players in college football history and Michigan owned Ohio State during his time there. Peyton never beat UF. I think there have been worse snubs like Eddie George over Tommie Frazier or Eric Crouch beating out Rex Grossman.
Still, 0-4 is 0-4. Woodson was one of the greatest defensive players in college football history and Michigan owned Ohio State during his time there. Peyton never beat UF. I think there have been worse snubs like Eddie George over Tommie Frazier or Eric Crouch beating out Rex Grossman.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:30 am to 4nmylifetime
quote:
Kevin Scarbinsky of the Birmingham news is a prime example. He voted Ro McClain 1st, Ingram 2nd. IMO this was done to merit attention for himself
This is ridiculous. He should be removed from voting. I would say the same if a guy that writes for a local paper in Gainsville voted Tebow 1st and Spikes 2nd. You have to have some objectivity if you are a voter.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:31 am to msukb79
My ballot:
1) Ndomakong Suh
2) Mark Ingram
3) Toby Gerhart
I think the Ingram / Gerhart argument is ridiculous. Gerhart has more touches and plays against PAC 10 defenses. Is there any doubt that if you plugged Ingram in Gerhart's place, and gave him the same touches against the same defenses, that he'd blow Gerhart's stats out of the water? Nobody has more big runs than Ingram this year (10 & 20+ yard carries), his yards per carry are better, and the level of competition is clearly superior.
1) Ndomakong Suh
2) Mark Ingram
3) Toby Gerhart
I think the Ingram / Gerhart argument is ridiculous. Gerhart has more touches and plays against PAC 10 defenses. Is there any doubt that if you plugged Ingram in Gerhart's place, and gave him the same touches against the same defenses, that he'd blow Gerhart's stats out of the water? Nobody has more big runs than Ingram this year (10 & 20+ yard carries), his yards per carry are better, and the level of competition is clearly superior.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 9:49 am
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:31 am to msukb79
quote:
I love the SEC as much as anybody, but If I was a sportswriter and had a Heisman vote, I would vote as follows
1. Toby Gerhart
2. Ndomakong Suh
3. Mark Ingram
IMHO I think that those three are interchangable depending on how you look at them.
I don't understand people like you. Trust me when I say the entire West Coast votes for Corky Gerhart, The entire Big-12 writers will vote for Suh as will most of the East Coast, why does't the Souther region support it's candidates?
Ever since Peyton got arse-raped, if I were a voter I would only and always vote SEC first, just like all the other regions of the country do.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:34 am to 4nmylifetime
never saw a bama fan concern himself with the ethics of heisman voting before. if i remember correctly, there wasn't a whimper when manning got hosed. now, it's an issue. hmmmmmm
do what i do. ignore the heisman altogether. it's a sham; always has been. the very concept is a sham. it's the equivilant of a football beauty contest. there is no such thing as one football player being the best just like there's no such thing as one beauty queen being the best. only the public gives this bogus award any credence whatsoever.
do what i do. ignore the heisman altogether. it's a sham; always has been. the very concept is a sham. it's the equivilant of a football beauty contest. there is no such thing as one football player being the best just like there's no such thing as one beauty queen being the best. only the public gives this bogus award any credence whatsoever.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:36 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
If there was one defensive player that ever deserved to win a Heisman, it's Charles Woodson.
Okay, then 2 Seasons after Woodson
did Champ Bailey deserve consideration for the Heisman? He had better stats than Charles Woodson on Defense, Offense and Special Teams, but then again he played at Georgia.
Do you know why Charles Woodson won the Heisaman? B/C Charles Woodson played at Michigan and Peyton Manning, who broke every single record in the SEC and most of the NCAA's, who will likely go down in history as the greatest QB ever - he played at Tennessee. It is a regional sportswriter's award. Wake up.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 9:39 am
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:37 am to 4nmylifetime
Welcome to 1962.
s/ Jerry Stovall
s/ Jerry Stovall
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:38 am to msukb79
quote:
Gerhart- Beast playing behind a FAR inferrior O-line thank INgram
Myth.
Their total rushing and total passing is within 200 yards of Bama's total offense and Gerhart and Ingram are within 21 yards of each other.
Next myth?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 9:40 am to LSU GrandDad
The Hiesman is one of my least interested awards that are given out. I really don't care who gets it and don't even watch the show. It's been a sham for as lond as I have been watching CFB and will all ways be that way with the way they do the voting.
The best guy rarely wins it.
The best guy rarely wins it.
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