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re: Obama's Farewell Address and what you will remember him for.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:28 am to DesignTiger
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:28 am to DesignTiger
quote:
In chronological order:
First "Black" President which was cool... Even though he's half White.
Killing Osama Bin Ladin... All he did was give the order though, I don't feel that it was necessary for him to have to tell our guys to take that dick bag out.
Making healthcare accessible to everyone while fricking up healthcare at the same time.
Adding to racial division and distrust of police officers in the minority communities.
Using the tax payer's money to campaign for HRC, but I know pretty much every previous President has done something like this.
Joe Biden memes... Funny as hell.
Having no balls to call countries/companies out for the better interest of America.
Overall I'd give him a 5/10.
Hahaha for sure.
0
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:34 am to Wtodd
quote:
4 - his apology tours
I haven't paid attention to a lot of the things he's done, but I didn't have a problem with him essentially apologizing for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:50 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I didn't have a problem with him essentially apologizing for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I do. Even putting aside the fact that we didn't start that war, the fire raids were deadlier than those attacks and one need look no further than Okinawa to see what a conventional invasion of mainland Japan would have been like. Those attacks demonstrated and ability to utterly eradicate the entire nation and couldn't be denied - and even then some Japanese still wanted to fight.
Those bombs ended the war in the fastest way possible with the least loss of life for both sides. An apology is essentially saying sorry we chose this route instead of using rifles and high explosives to kill a lot more of your people.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:52 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I won't make Obama the culprit for this, but I agree that pandering to them and validating them in any form was absolutely a mistake and has done some serious damage to this country.
Completely agree he didn't create it, but when placed in a position where he could have helped defuse the atmosphere he instead chose to pour a lot of gas and throw a few matches.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:52 am to GnashRebel
quote:
I will remember him as the guy who pulled the troops out of Iraq for no reason and undermined much of the hard fought gains my friends and I made.
Creating the vacuum for ISIS and what's about to come out of Iran in the next few years. That chapter hasn't even started yet.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:54 am to pvilleguru
quote:
but I didn't have a problem with him essentially apologizing for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Don't start shite you can't finish. Japan started it, we finished it.
Drops mic
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:57 am to JustGetItRight
I can't forgive killing civilians.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 10:55 am to TeLeFaWx
F
There is nothing about his Presidency that moved this country forward. Foreign policy is a shitstorm. Economic and health policies are crippling. Race relations are worse. He spent 8 yrs being self serving and has made the world a much more dangerous place with his inept policies and bowing to Iran.
There is nothing about his Presidency that moved this country forward. Foreign policy is a shitstorm. Economic and health policies are crippling. Race relations are worse. He spent 8 yrs being self serving and has made the world a much more dangerous place with his inept policies and bowing to Iran.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:07 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I can't forgive killing civilians.
Well you weren't in charge during a war that had already claimed the lives of over 60,000,000 people. Civilians always die and every side killed their fair share.
I am not saying it was the right call drop the bombs but I also understand why it was done. Saving additional US lives, sparing Japan an invasion of the home island, and getting it over with before the Soviets had an opportunity to further increase their influence.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:27 am to Alahunter
quote:
F
There is nothing about his Presidency that moved this country forward. Foreign policy is a shitstorm. Economic and health policies are crippling. Race relations are worse. He spent 8 yrs being self serving and has made the world a much more dangerous place with his inept policies and bowing to Iran.
When I try and look for something that did, it's hard. I am admittedly biased, and didn't vote for the man, but what do leftists say he did to move the country forward? What's their big talking point? Do they even have one?
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:37 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I am admittedly biased, and didn't vote for the man, but what do leftists say he did to move the country forward? What's their big talking point? Do they even have one?
Playing devil's advocate because I never voted for the guy either. It would probably be something along the lines of pushing the healthcare debate. I think everyone can agree that Obamacare was overall very poorly done but there are some positives things that can be used from it. Pre-existing conditions and the age that dependents can stay on a plan. Trump brought those up in his 60 minute interview as well.
There are many but my biggest complaint about the Obamacare thing is how it was rushed. Obama knew he was going to lose the Congress and pushed/rushed it.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:42 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I can't forgive killing civilians.
I understand the sentiment, but civilians die in every war and sometimes in large numbers - particularly when weapons of immense destructive power exist but precision targeting does not (which was the case in WW2).
Every combatant is/was in that same boat and it is not relevant at all to whether or not it was appropriate to apologize for two specific attacks. As I said in my first post, the fire raids were more deadly than the atomic strikes and yet nobody feels the need to ask for or give an apology for those events. The apology is/was for having the gall to invent a weapon superior than any that had ever existed and then use it on your enemy and I have a HUGE problem with that point of view.
Again, as I said earlier, those attacks saved untold Japanese lives. Look at what happened to the civilian population of Okinawa (which unlike the other Pacific islands we invaded, is actually part of Japan). The Japanese estimate is that 100,000 died. The US estimate is 142,000 killed or wounded. Depending on which estimate you accept, that's between 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire civilian population. Further, many of those were suicides to avoid capture by US forces. Kyushu - the target of the first landings - would have likely seen civilian deaths and injuries of close to a million and another million in US & Japanese military casualties.
There wasn't a realistic option C. You either drop the bombs and hope the shock value ends the war or you invade Japan. Thankfully, the bombs worked.
There was absolutely NO reason to apologize for choosing to employ a weapon that killed a lot of people in order to save a lot more.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:50 am to pvilleguru
quote:
I can't forgive killing civilians.
You think the civilians would have stood by while the U.S. did what was necessary to end the war, which would have been invasion in lieu of the bombs?
You really are that clueless. I'd ask how you would end a war you didn't start but I imagine your answer would involve bending over and lubrication.
This post was edited on 1/11/17 at 11:50 am
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:03 pm to TeLeFaWx
F U C K Obama. That a-hole can ride off into the sunset and frick himself silly. Him and his goofy looking wife.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:09 pm to Pavoloco83
quote:
but hopefully this place can get us some deeper discussion?
quote:
F U C K Obama. That a-hole can ride off into the sunset and frick himself silly. Him and his goofy looking wife.
Well, you tried at least
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:22 pm to TeLeFaWx
I'll remember him for being a spineless, pretentious, duplicitous, race-baiting charlatan with the coldest hand I've ever had the misfortune to shake.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:27 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
You think the civilians would have stood by while the U.S. did what was necessary to end the war, which would have been invasion in lieu of the bombs?
They would have reasons to fight at that point.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:47 pm to rockiee
quote:
Playing devil's advocate because I never voted for the guy either. It would probably be something along the lines of pushing the healthcare debate. I think everyone can agree that Obamacare was overall very poorly done but there are some positives things that can be used from it. Pre-existing conditions and the age that dependents can stay on a plan. Trump brought those up in his 60 minute interview as well.
There are many but my biggest complaint about the Obamacare thing is how it was rushed. Obama knew he was going to lose the Congress and pushed/rushed it.
I can agree with this. I think the biggest issue was Obama and the Dems let their special interests design the majority of it, and in the process it did nothing to address cost. It addressed access, and was supposedly "budget neutral", but nothing in the bill was designed to bring down costs. Nothing. And I think if the Democrats had been honest about Obamacare and it's failures they wouldn't have lost the Rust Belt to Trump. It's amazing that they haven't offered up any solutions to their mess in the past 6 years.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 1:04 pm to TeLeFaWx
i actually agree with a lot of the OP. i started out as an Obama hater early on and then softened a bit in my early 30s.
the man has a different world view than i do. he wants good for people, we just want to go about it very different ways.
i think he's an insanely better man than Trump, but less so than Bush. But he was a better president than Bush by a mile as far as being effective and getting his message out.
that being said. i think he's a godless man and his moral fiber waxes and wanes with popular opinion as opposed to any true stances. most of that would be where our differences stem from. but at the end of the day, i'd have a beer with him.
his greatest failures were in 3 things:
race relations
foreign policy ( i don't mind droning, but he's a hypocrite)
ACA ( i agree with preexisting conditions, but that's it really)
don't even need to explain them. the record stands for itself.
the man has a different world view than i do. he wants good for people, we just want to go about it very different ways.
i think he's an insanely better man than Trump, but less so than Bush. But he was a better president than Bush by a mile as far as being effective and getting his message out.
that being said. i think he's a godless man and his moral fiber waxes and wanes with popular opinion as opposed to any true stances. most of that would be where our differences stem from. but at the end of the day, i'd have a beer with him.
his greatest failures were in 3 things:
race relations
foreign policy ( i don't mind droning, but he's a hypocrite)
ACA ( i agree with preexisting conditions, but that's it really)
don't even need to explain them. the record stands for itself.
This post was edited on 1/11/17 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 1/11/17 at 1:08 pm to 3nOut
quote:
i actually agree with a lot of the OP.
The smart ones always do.
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