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re: Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:27 am to LSU1NSEC
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:27 am to LSU1NSEC
quote:
George Foreman said Lennox Lewis was probably one of the greatest HW's in history of boxing. And, yes, Foreman was a great boxer.
You know he had a vested interest in saying this when he worked for HBO? As I said before, you can not be considered great by losing to Oliver McCall in Wembley and Hasim Rachman.
Lewis had the skills to be a great Heavy. He was ducked by a lot of people because of the skills. I give Lewis credit he fought everyone that was out there, or at least tried to.
Lewis' biggest issue was his nationality crisis. He was a Jamaican, then a Canadian, then a Brit; the American boxing public saw him as someone that they could not connect with.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 9:29 am
1
Posted on 3/29/14 at 11:06 am to sms151t
Ali, Lewis and Holyfield won 3 world championships. Not sure anybody else accomplished that. If you watch Lewis' fights you realize that he may struggle sometimes but the guy would win rounds consistently. Also, a great technical fighter for his size. Had one of the strongest right hand punches I've ever seen - including Ali. Guy was an all-around champion imo.
watching the lewis v holyfield fight on youtube - damn! don't care what people say about holyfield but that dude was tough
LINK
watching the lewis v holyfield fight on youtube - damn! don't care what people say about holyfield but that dude was tough
LINK
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 11:12 am
Posted on 3/29/14 at 11:30 am to Mizz-SEC
quote:
What makes you think he wouldn't have done the same with Tyson?
To you and the UGA fella, no one can justify a winner or loser by naming people that they beat because the people they beat didn't fight each other either. A more recognizable name doesn't mean they are a better boxer. Public interest and popularity has a lot to do with name recognition.
All I know is a fighter with ONE punch pushed Ali hard in 3 fights and lost one of them. So I feel like if Frasier could do that well against Ali, that Tyson could beat him.
AS for Ali, pretty much every big name he beat, also beat him at some point. With exception of Foreman who Ali was scared to rematch because he knew he couldn't beat him again.
If big George had a smarter corner to tell him not to punch himself out he would have beat Ali the first time.
Tyson and Ali had 2 common opponents, Ali lost to both, and Tyson beat both. And I know that was an unfair statement, but it is the only comparative data we have.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 11:31 am to LSU1NSEC
But Lewis go beat by Rachman and McCall who were way below his "level"
Holyfield losing to Moorer who lost to 49? y/o Foreman, although a fluke takes credibility away. Holyfield dominated Foreman earlier though, but never really hurt George. The 8th rd of the Bowe fight (1st) was greatest round of boxing in HWT division. Both were almost knocked out.
Holyfield losing to Moorer who lost to 49? y/o Foreman, although a fluke takes credibility away. Holyfield dominated Foreman earlier though, but never really hurt George. The 8th rd of the Bowe fight (1st) was greatest round of boxing in HWT division. Both were almost knocked out.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:14 pm to My Daddy
quote:
AS for Ali, pretty much every big name he beat, also beat him at some point. With exception of Foreman who Ali was scared to rematch because he knew he couldn't beat him again.
And let's not forget the Mike Tyson of his day, Sonny Liston, who he bitch slapped twice in row.
By way of comparison, both returned after a multi-year layoff at the age of 29. Tyson went 9-5. Ali went 27-5, including the majority of his epic fights. Ali changed his style as he aged (and for specific opponents) and just kept winning. Tyson couldn't change and got crushed once his bubble of invincibility was popped - just like Liston.
And speaking of the ESPNinzation of a boxer... Tyson's the king. He of the 30 second knockout of tomato cans.
You can hate on Ali for his political/religious views all you want (I'm surprised you're not calling him Clay) - but the facts speak for themselves. Ali accomplished more after the age of 30 than Tyson did in his whole career - and often embarrassingly so.
The Greatest at age 35 in 1977...
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:38 pm to Mizz-SEC
quote:
The Greatest at age 35 in 1977...
That gif is great
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:01 pm to Mizz-SEC
Another bully hater.
Listen, Tyson wasn't a bully, people were just scared of him. And Liston doesn't = Tyson.
None of this is what we are talking about (multiyear layoff, greatest after 35, etc...)
Records on paper don't win fights.
I'm gonna stick with the fact that Frasier (with one true punch) gave him all he wanted in a trilogy and won one of those, I believe Tyson would win period. That's my opinion and yall have an opinion as well.
The only facts are the common opponents, and that isn't fair, but that's ALL we have other than our individual opinions. Since we will not ever agree on this, lets just agree to disagree
Listen, Tyson wasn't a bully, people were just scared of him. And Liston doesn't = Tyson.
quote:
By way of comparison, both returned after a multi-year layoff at the age of 29. Tyson went 9-5. Ali went 27-5, including the majority of his epic fights. Ali changed his style as he aged (and for specific opponents) and just kept winning. Tyson couldn't change and got crushed once his bubble of invincibility was popped - just like Liston. And speaking of the ESPNinzation of a boxer... Tyson's the king. He of the 30 second knockout of tomato cans. You can hate on Ali for his political/religious views all you want (I'm surprised you're not calling him Clay) - but the facts speak for themselves. Ali accomplished more after the age of 30 than Tyson did in his whole career - and often embarrassingly so. The Greatest at age 35 in 1977...
None of this is what we are talking about (multiyear layoff, greatest after 35, etc...)
Records on paper don't win fights.
I'm gonna stick with the fact that Frasier (with one true punch) gave him all he wanted in a trilogy and won one of those, I believe Tyson would win period. That's my opinion and yall have an opinion as well.
The only facts are the common opponents, and that isn't fair, but that's ALL we have other than our individual opinions. Since we will not ever agree on this, lets just agree to disagree
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:10 pm to My Daddy
quote:
. Since we will not ever agree on this, lets just agree to disagree
I disagree, and you're wrong.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:05 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Unless they could actually get it on in the ring, and not compare paper work, we wont know who is right or wrong.
You gotta link to show Ali beating Tyson?
Until you do, you are just as wrong, and that's a fact.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:07 pm to sms151t
quote:
But Lewis go beat by Rachman and McCall who were way below his "level"
Holyfield losing to Moorer who lost to 49? y/o Foreman, although a fluke takes credibility away. Holyfield dominated Foreman earlier though, but never really hurt George. The 8th rd of the Bowe fight (1st) was greatest round of boxing in HWT division. Both were almost knocked out.
yep, all HW's lost to someone sooner or later.
Was looking at Lewis' amateur and pro records - impressive. Trying to find some stats on percentage of punches landed. Don't know how the guy did it but he could come out of a round looking like he was beat and the judges would score him winning the round. Dude was just a great boxer.
Would love to see Ali v Lewis in their prime - probably have to give Ali a slight edge simply on punches landed.
Lewis' Amateur Record:
Record: 75–7 (58 KOs)
Lewis' Pro Record:
41 Wins (32 KOs), 2 Losses, 1 Draw
Plus a boatload of other impressive achievements - olympics, commonwealth games, pan american games, etc.
LINK
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:18 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
They outweigh him by 50-60 pounds easily, this is a horribly stupid question.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:28 pm to My Daddy
quote:
I call Tyson by KO in the 9th...
If Tyson doesn't get the KO by the 2nd round, Ali wins.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:04 pm to Grievous Angel
I was referring to the guy that was watching the Tyson/Douglas fight.
I was joking about Tyson getting a raw deal on a slow count in the 9th round, only to get KO'd in the 10th.
I was joking about Tyson getting a raw deal on a slow count in the 9th round, only to get KO'd in the 10th.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:35 pm to My Daddy
Here is Mr Bert Sugars 100 greatest fighters list.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross
21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern
31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns
51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo ;Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. Dick Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale
71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster
76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez
86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins
92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney
94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie
96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland
98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins
100. Mike Tyson
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:37 pm to Mizz-SEC
Just watched Ali v George Foreman in Africa. LOL. Foreman wore himself out by the 4th round trying to beat Ali on the ropes. Fighting outside in 80 degrees, 90% humidity. Ali was 38. Foreman was 24.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:41 pm to Mizz-SEC
Like I said earlier, with all due respect to Bert Sugar.
Unless they could actually get it on in the ring, and not compare paper work, we wont know who is right or wrong.
You gotta link to show Ali beating Tyson?
Until you do, you are just as wrong, and that's a fact.
Unless they could actually get it on in the ring, and not compare paper work, we wont know who is right or wrong.
You gotta link to show Ali beating Tyson?
Until you do, you are just as wrong, and that's a fact.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:48 pm to My Daddy
Just admit you suck at this
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:51 pm to My Daddy
You are entitled to an opinion but for my money, Ali was the best. He could punch, he could take a punch and hit you six times before you could blink. If you really watched Ali in his prime, you might hit him hard once but not twice in a row. He was smarter than those that he fought. I would take Ali in his prime against anyone.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:00 pm to Vols&Shaft83
I didn't say anything that wasn't true.
I never said it was a fact That Tyson would win.
I said that IMO he would win, and yalls opinion was Ali would win.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW HOW IT WOULD GO.
You suck at understanding what differing opinions are. When you provide a link of Ali beating Tyson I will admit that my opinion sucks.
Until then STFU
I never said it was a fact That Tyson would win.
I said that IMO he would win, and yalls opinion was Ali would win.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW HOW IT WOULD GO.
You suck at understanding what differing opinions are. When you provide a link of Ali beating Tyson I will admit that my opinion sucks.
Until then STFU
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:03 pm to tigerfan182
I respect your opinion.
I can not say your are wrong.
I can not say your are wrong.
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