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Message

re: Looters

Posted on 8/21/14 at 12:53 am to
Posted by BlackPawnMartyr
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2010
15302 posts
Posted on 8/21/14 at 12:53 am to
quote:

it's not capitalism that has failed, IMO. It is humanity that has failed. Socialism which isn't rooted in empathy and justice will fail just the same as capitalism which isn't rooted in empathy and justice.


Capitalism is a much more vague idea but essentially reverses priorities, putting the predominant role in the hands of private interests such as investors and corporations. State power in a capitalist country usually focuses on the creation of standards, public health, safety, and welfare, such things as regulating the currency, protecting the environment, and assuring the health of the populace.

In contrast to the 19th Century, the US already operates on a much-diluted form of capitalism. Our markets are not free; they are highly regulated (and yet many would today argue they are not highly regulated enough). The exchange rates and values of our currency do not float freely but are heavily manipulated through federal government rate-setting activities. Investment decisions are not driven purely by return expectations or classic risk/reward analyses; rather they are incentivized or discouraged by a byzantine system of rewards and penalties affectionately known as the Internal Revenue Code. In other words, the federal government – under both Democrat and Republican Administrations and supported by both Houses of Congress – intervenes routinely in how markets operate and how capital is deployed. In this sense the federal tax code is fundamentally a mechanism for wealth redistribution, so candidate Obama’s statement about his proposed middle-class tax cut simply represented a shift to one set of priorities, much as the Bush Administration’s tax cuts represented another.

If you accept the premise above that the U.S. already had one foot out the doorway between a more pure form of capitalism and socialism as it is widely practiced in other Westernized countries, it now appears that the U.S. is being pulled at warp speed through that doorway, as a consequence of the myriad plans (schemes would be a more accurate description, given how little thought appears to be devoted to them before rolling them out at press conference after press conference) for bailing out various classically capitalistic institutions.

Bailing out a completely broken mortgage finance system that rewarded handsomely (some would say shamelessly) myriad private-sector entities and the mortgage industry represents a shift towards socialism. Providing over $100 billion in taxpayer support for AIG is socialism, not capitalism. Providing $200 billion of taxpayer support to prop up consumer credit, so that Americans can return to a false economy predicated upon unbridled, conspicuous consumption, is socialism not capitalism.

The fact that these and other extraordinary moves by the federal government are undertaken in the name of saving our capitalistic economy and staving off a severe economic depression does not change the fact that we are experiencing – first under Bush and soon under Obama – a powerful drift towards extended state control of the economy. Free-wheeling and unfettered profit-making and corporate greed on the way up, backstopped by enormous government bailouts on the way down, represents in some ways the worst of both worlds .

LINK


This post was edited on 8/21/14 at 1:00 am
Posted by BlackPawnMartyr
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2010
15302 posts
Posted on 8/21/14 at 12:55 am to
Politicians seek money. (for themselves and sponsors) Money is gained through power and invention. (invention takes real intelligence) Power is gained through controlling something. The best ways to control something for real long term profit is too force out competition. You can either block market entrance points through friends in government or through black market intimidations and eliminations (murder). The great thing about government cronyism is you don't have to pay for the enforcers, the people do. Plus you make it "legal".
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
119120 posts
Posted on 8/21/14 at 7:16 am to
All looters are thieves, what's your point?
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
69906 posts
Posted on 8/21/14 at 7:28 am to
quote:

Capitalism is a much more vague idea but essentially reverses priorities, putting the predominant role in the hands of private interests such as investors and corporations. State power in a capitalist country usually focuses on the creation of standards, public health, safety, and welfare, such things as regulating the currency, protecting the environment, and assuring the health of the populace.

In contrast to the 19th Century, the US already operates on a much-diluted form of capitalism. Our markets are not free; they are highly regulated (and yet many would today argue they are not highly regulated enough). The exchange rates and values of our currency do not float freely but are heavily manipulated through federal government rate-setting activities. Investment decisions are not driven purely by return expectations or classic risk/reward analyses; rather they are incentivized or discouraged by a byzantine system of rewards and penalties affectionately known as the Internal Revenue Code. In other words, the federal government – under both Democrat and Republican Administrations and supported by both Houses of Congress – intervenes routinely in how markets operate and how capital is deployed. In this sense the federal tax code is fundamentally a mechanism for wealth redistribution, so candidate Obama’s statement about his proposed middle-class tax cut simply represented a shift to one set of priorities, much as the Bush Administration’s tax cuts represented another.

If you accept the premise above that the U.S. already had one foot out the doorway between a more pure form of capitalism and socialism as it is widely practiced in other Westernized countries, it now appears that the U.S. is being pulled at warp speed through that doorway, as a consequence of the myriad plans (schemes would be a more accurate description, given how little thought appears to be devoted to them before rolling them out at press conference after press conference) for bailing out various classically capitalistic institutions.

Bailing out a completely broken mortgage finance system that rewarded handsomely (some would say shamelessly) myriad private-sector entities and the mortgage industry represents a shift towards socialism. Providing over $100 billion in taxpayer support for AIG is socialism, not capitalism. Providing $200 billion of taxpayer support to prop up consumer credit, so that Americans can return to a false economy predicated upon unbridled, conspicuous consumption, is socialism not capitalism.

The fact that these and other extraordinary moves by the federal government are undertaken in the name of saving our capitalistic economy and staving off a severe economic depression does not change the fact that we are experiencing – first under Bush and soon under Obama – a powerful drift towards extended state control of the economy. Free-wheeling and unfettered profit-making and corporate greed on the way up, backstopped by enormous government bailouts on the way down, represents in some ways the worst of both worlds .





I don't like to call it Socialism, because Socialism promotes empathy and justice (albeit misguided and naive).

I'm not a fan of Socialism because I know it won't work, and because I can run a calculator.


Progressive minded fellows routinely call bailouts a result of Capitalism, WHICH IS INFURIATING TO ANYONE WITH A frickING BRAIN.

It sure as frick isn't Capitalism, and it's not Socialism, it's something much more dangerous, Corporatism.
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7766 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:06 am to
quote:

They don't actually steal, they just ask you to pay for things that you enjoy.




So they tell me what I enjoy and then buy it "for me."

If you want to say we need income taxes to provide for certain basic things, fine (even though it wasn't originally allowed for in the Constitution). But you're not going to tell me that all the things my taxes pay for are necessary and just the result of the government trying to help me.
Posted by AUbagman
LA
Member since Jun 2014
10568 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:12 am to
I suggest you read "Liberalism" by Ludwig von Mises.
Posted by Pavoloco83
Acworth Ga. too many damn dawgs
Member since Nov 2013
15347 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 11:13 am to
quote:

Well... there IS a negro in the second pic. So, all equal, no?


Brother is photobombing the whiteys.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

Yes, I said I was fine. Which means I'm completely content with what's going on.

This is called subjective.

One of us likes something or feels comfortable with something and the other does not.

I have no problem with the people paying the national debt, or that it was run up purchasing the military.

We've discussed this to death.



Haha, oh my. I'm going to love pointing to this thread to highlight your retardation. You're legitimately dumb, you got lost in a most basic conversation. You're missing a rather important detail in your little summary.

Play with magma, get burned.
Posted by brucevilanch
Fort Worth, Tejas
Member since May 2011
24333 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:04 pm to
Still in here fighting the good fight, huh?
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Play with magma, get burned.


You made this quip retarded so I'm calling it a slow burn.

Like, REALLY slow. You bumped a two day old thread
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Progressive minded fellows routinely call bailouts a result of Capitalism, WHICH IS INFURIATING TO ANYONE WITH A frickING BRAIN.

It sure as frick isn't Capitalism, and it's not Socialism, it's something much more dangerous, Corporatism.



Funny that capitalism isn't held to the same critique as socialism when it comes to failing.

State capitalism is the global norm. From China to the US. The socialism vs capitalism is a charade for purposes of division.
Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
69906 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

State capitalism is the global norm.



State Capitalism is NOT Capitalism, it's Corporatism. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN THE frickING DIFFERENCE?



MAGMA frickING DAMMIT
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 2:18 pm to
Shhh, do not resist as the magma envelopes you in its warm embrace...it will all be over soon.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

State Capitalism is NOT Capitalism, it's Corporatism. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN THE frickING DIFFERENCE?


Try applying the first sentence to the second one.

Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

You made this quip retarded so I'm calling it a slow burn. Like, REALLY slow. You bumped a two day old thread


Have a life, oopsydaisy.
Posted by REBEL5 AC
Member since Sep 2012
14701 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

Have a life, oopsydaisy.


Funny coming from a hipster, "government please stop stealing from others unless you give me some," No Work = Full Pay, pathetic conspiracy theorist.

oopsydaisy
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

Have a life, oopsydaisy.


Didn't even get the reference

You fail us yet again, o fatigued feline.
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35613 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 3:46 pm to
The divide is mostly based in the false notion that capitalism = markets and socialism = central planning.

Also, corporatism is a symptom of capitalism. One expects it to some degree.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

Funny coming from a hipster, "government please stop stealing from others unless you give me some," No Work = Full Pay, pathetic conspiracy theorist.


This absurd level of slanderous jumping to conclusions will not be tolerated.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

The divide is mostly based in the false notion that capitalism = markets and socialism = central planning. Also, corporatism is a symptom of capitalism. One expects it to some degree.


Righteo
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