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re: It's way past time to overhaul our education system
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:51 am to heartbreakTiger
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:51 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
I've seen some crazy ways of trying to explain the mat
As someone who is typically to the right of Attila the Hun, the conservative hue and cry about Common Core is misplaced idiocy.
The math isn't even "Common Core." Most of those examples you see online are from "Everyday Math" which is undoubtedly the worst math curriculum ever created. But no school district has to use Everyday Math.
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Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:52 am to the808bass
Not okay with it at all. Not convinced that schooling and education are capable of fixing that issue without addressing some of the underlying societal issues.
I'm not absolving schools of blame. There are some miserable schools out there that need to be help accountable. But education has also become a political whipping boy and the net gets cast a little wide when assigning blame.
I'm not absolving schools of blame. There are some miserable schools out there that need to be help accountable. But education has also become a political whipping boy and the net gets cast a little wide when assigning blame.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:52 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
We should not be sacrificing the top of the class to save the bottom.
I'd argue that before NCLB, the bottom kids were ignored and the top kids (who'd usually learn in a room by themselves with resources) were focused on.
NCLB forces schools to try to educate everyone. That's kind of the goal of public education.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:54 am to the808bass
The right does have a bad habit of screaming about every little thing. Any school that uses the math i have seen from "Everyday Math" should be shut down.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:54 am to hogfly
quote:
I'm not absolving schools of blame. There are some miserable schools out there that need to be help accountable. But education has also become a political whipping boy and the net gets cast a little wide when assigning blame.
Ok. That's reasonable. I don't agree that much. There's schools and teachers which succeed in those environments, so it's not impossible. But it is part of a larger societal problem.
The schools need to stop making excuses for what they can't control and focus their energy on what they can.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:56 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
It really doesn't solve what i was saying, unless i have it wrong it just presents a different method not all the routes to solve a problem.
It does. All Common Core is is a set of standards that attempts to get all the states meeting certain educational benchmarks within a certain timeframe. So a kid in California in 8th grade should have the same competency as a kid in 8th grade in Georgia. The actual curriculum is chosen by the school districts.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:57 am to KSGamecock
quote:
Unions made this country you fricktwit
Unions are the death of this country.........
and ebola
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:58 am to The Spleen
quote:
So a kid in California in 8th grade should have the same competency as a kid in 8th grade in Georgia.
Yeah. This isn't a bad thing in my book. Especially when you read the standards. They're pretty meat and potatoes.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:58 am to heartbreakTiger
I have a 1st and a 3rd grader (the 3rd grader has LD). While some of the math annoys me that they bring home, I understand the reason they do it.
They're trying to teach them many different ways of looking at numbers and solving problems. The reason is so that they actually understand the concepts of the math, not just the "tricks" or steps to solve the problem.
As I've shown my kid tricks on things like rounding, I realize that he doesn't actually understand what the hell he's doing when he's rounding. He just knows the process to walk through. I can see how this will hurt him as he gets into higher math, because he hasn't actually learned the concept of what he's actually doing when he rounds numbers.
So I get the "new" math that they're doing under Common Core. It's actually trying to get them to conceptualize what's happening instead of just blindly performing a function.
They're trying to teach them many different ways of looking at numbers and solving problems. The reason is so that they actually understand the concepts of the math, not just the "tricks" or steps to solve the problem.
As I've shown my kid tricks on things like rounding, I realize that he doesn't actually understand what the hell he's doing when he's rounding. He just knows the process to walk through. I can see how this will hurt him as he gets into higher math, because he hasn't actually learned the concept of what he's actually doing when he rounds numbers.
So I get the "new" math that they're doing under Common Core. It's actually trying to get them to conceptualize what's happening instead of just blindly performing a function.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 8:58 am to the808bass
The issue is NCLB focus too many resources on the bottom that can't be helped in a traditional classroom. I agree we should try to educate everyone, we need the top of the class at least engaged and interested even if it is easy for them. We need the middle to get the main bulk of resources and then the bottom can be helped during recess or after school if they need more help. As that bottom group moves into high school we should have them grouped mostly together and still let them have a shot at college prep courses but for their electives encourage things like shop.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:02 am to hogfly
quote:
He just knows the process to walk through. I can see how this will hurt him as he gets into higher math, because he hasn't actually learned the concept of what he's actually doing when he rounds numbers.
Eh. This isn't a big deal. We learn facts long before we learn theory. That's how we learn. You don't teach 1st graders pointillism. You give them a brush and say "make a dog."
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:02 am to heartbreakTiger
My main issue with education, and this is an uncharacteristically conservative viewpoint for me is that it's become a cash cow for certain interests (unions being one of them).
Private (and public/private) interests are realizing the amount of profit to be made from school reform and are lining up like pigs at the trough. I know that many of these reformers actually have the best interest of our nation's educational system and citizenry at their heart, but a lot of them are trying to finagle things so that they can reap the maximum amount of profit from the system.
We really are creating a testing/industrial complex, imo.
Private (and public/private) interests are realizing the amount of profit to be made from school reform and are lining up like pigs at the trough. I know that many of these reformers actually have the best interest of our nation's educational system and citizenry at their heart, but a lot of them are trying to finagle things so that they can reap the maximum amount of profit from the system.
We really are creating a testing/industrial complex, imo.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:02 am to hogfly
quote:
As I've shown my kid tricks on things like rounding, I realize that he doesn't actually understand what the hell he's doing when he's rounding. He just knows the process to walk through
No kid that young understands the mechanics behind what they are doing. Hell that shite gets taught at a college level, and in theoretical classes that nobody outside of a math degree has to take.
Focusing on teaching young children to understand concepts instead of learning techniques is a grave mistake IMO.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:03 am to The Spleen
So common core shows students all the alternate routes or at least some? Like I said i have no time really invested in it and the only time I've heard it talked about was before class and from my crazy prepper brother in law. I agree that 8th graders around the country should basically be on the same competency level. I just don't like the idea of standardized test being the end all because the country is far too diverse for one standard to work well.
However, I do see the need for some connection throughout the entire education system. The question is where do we get the balance and flexibility to adapt a system for the unique challenges presented in each state.
However, I do see the need for some connection throughout the entire education system. The question is where do we get the balance and flexibility to adapt a system for the unique challenges presented in each state.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:03 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
The issue is NCLB focus too many resources on the bottom that can't be helped in a traditional classroom.
Disagree. The vast majority of kids (my wife would probably say 95%) can be educated in a traditional classroom. We shouldn't be writing education policy for the 5%.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:04 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
As that bottom group moves into high school we should have them grouped mostly together and still let them have a shot at college prep courses but for their electives encourage things like shop.
I agree with the underlying point here. College isn't for everyone and should not be the goal of our public schools.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:06 am to the808bass
I understand that, but I think a lot of the hew and cry over it is because students are being shown different ways to work problems than the rote process their parents learned. In Singapore Math, for example (which is pretty much what they use at my kid's school), you learn to work a problem 3 different ways. I think a lot of parents think "why learn to work it 3 different ways, when 1 will suffice." But it's to help build conceptual understanding.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:07 am to the808bass
Totally agree: the whole college readiness thing is BS and gutting vocational education was a mistake. I don't want to trap people into vocations and create a tiered system, but the college prep route isn't for everyone.
Additionally, the higher education bubble may burst one day and make the housing loan bubble look like a fart in the tub.
Additionally, the higher education bubble may burst one day and make the housing loan bubble look like a fart in the tub.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:10 am to hogfly
My takeaway from all the Common Core backlash is the parents not understanding the methods their kids are being taught. "That's not the way I learned it" doesn't mean it's not a good way to learn.
My kids are both excelling with the new methods.
My kids are both excelling with the new methods.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:11 am to the808bass
That was probably badly worded by me. The entire bottom isn't incapable of learning in a normal classroom. I would guess a majority could understand if they had a better support at home or were pushed into extra help outside of class. It still leaves the bottom of the bottom which can bog down a normal room, these are the ones that should maybe be held back or sent to a non-traditional school.
FWIW I believe the lower level teachers are in a pickle with how to handle the kid that doesn't understand. You can't bog down the class but how do you get that kid extra help. In college it is easy because the teacher can say see me on office hours. In the lower education the kid has a very limited time to be helped. I would guess the best way would be a kid that is failing to under stand is held out from recess or something.
FWIW I believe the lower level teachers are in a pickle with how to handle the kid that doesn't understand. You can't bog down the class but how do you get that kid extra help. In college it is easy because the teacher can say see me on office hours. In the lower education the kid has a very limited time to be helped. I would guess the best way would be a kid that is failing to under stand is held out from recess or something.
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