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re: I have a couple questions about science.....
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:01 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:01 pm to Kentucker
quote:but with that WORLDVIEW comes a whole host of consequences. perfect circle perfectly outlined 3 questions that every viable worldview must answer; origins, purpose, destiny. atheism says that either life has always existed (not possible) or that life came from lifelessness (not possible), that we have no purpose (self defeating) and that we are going nowhere (highly debatable and unlikely given that purposeless life is self defeating).
being atheistic just means a person lacks a belief in the existence of God. Nothing else.
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Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:02 pm to SamuelClemens
quote:of which there is no proof
We evolved from a common ancestor
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:07 pm to Kentucker
quote:that is a belief. i'm sorry you can't see this facile truth.
I don't believe in anything. I accept that which exists.
quote:subjective
That which has observational
quote:unreliable. evidence to one person is not to another. moreover, hume, an empiricist, said that we can never truly know if one thing caused another. we can only infer. would you care to explain to him how he is wrong?
and reproducible evidence
quote:
some of us retain the natural view of the world that we share with other mammals.
mammals aren't sentient. there's no comparison here. but this sheds light on your worldview. you're more akin to non-sentient animals than you are to your own kind who know better.Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:16 pm to Kentucker
quote:that is ONE form of atheism.
Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
some advice, stop acting like you know things you don't know. it's clear there is ALOT that you think you know that you have not studied academically. an academic study of something is to know who the proponents are and their contributions to the field, to know the opponents and their contributions to the field and to know whether the view has contributed anything that advances the discipline. you haven't demonstrated this AT ALL
quote:this is called the presumption of atheism and it is indefensible. if you were at all aware of this, you would never make such a statement. again, there is a whole host of scholarly literature on why it is problematic. the only people who use it are biased.
There is no evidence for spirits and to make the effort to reject the possibility is unnecessary.
quote:so here you are admitting that your prior definition was not totally correct, as i pointed out
The word atheist has come to mean anti-theism
quote:this discussion is not about "religion." it is about the dichotomy between the physical and the metaphysical. again, you don't understand what you are critiquing. the advent of postmodernism has seen a resurgence in the metaphysics which means you are a modernist/antimetaphysical dinosaur.
I am not antireligion, except when it threatens to mix with government.
quote:which is a belief system/worldview and any halfway clued up person can see that
I am areligious, meaning that I don't include it in my life.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:22 pm to Kentucker
quote:absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence. it's a scientific maxim but, of course you knew that already, right?
Whenever I researclhed the subject I found no evidence.
quote:which is silly. a purely secular government/worldview has no way to distinguish the morality of actions. it's unadulterated relativism. any laws are completely ad hoc and arbitrary because they have no transcendent moral anchor behind them. here's an example
I only oppose religion when people try to mix it with government.
moral conundrum
there's no way for a purely secular govt to decide with any authority who is right in this regard.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:32 pm to Kentucker
quote:which is a religion in and of itself. not an traditionally institutional religion but a religion/belief system/worldview for sure.
I don't subscribe to any religion or beliefs
quote:perhaps you don't understand
To me, religion and beliefs are illogical.
quote:evolutionary ethics is nothing more than veiled relativism. nonsense.
I think evolution is responsible for the role that religion plays in the human mind
quote:you mentioned psychobabble....
I do think epigenetics plays a strong role in the intensity with which a person feels religious.
I think it ranges from a near zero effect in myself and others to extremely high in zealots such as Buddhist monks who commit acts of self-immolation, radical Muslims who kill "infidels" and Christian evangelists who feel a compulsion to "spread the Word."
quote:institutional religion maybe. abrahamic christianity, not at all
I also think religion, through evolution, grew out of the need for a hierarchy that humans and other social animals developed.
quote:says who? that is a super broad statement that i'm pretty sure you can't substantiate
Before the modern human brain evolved, matters of hierarchy were settled by brawn only.
quote:that's not even ubiquitously true today much less always been true.
Brawn became secondary to cunning. Now the smartest occupied the top position.
quote:my word you are a deluded individual. i'm trying to decide if you're the kind of person who knows just enough to be dangerous. i'm still trying to figure out what you actually know and how much is just blustery bullcrap
This tactic became religion when the smart guys began to display "magic tricks." Then, to solidify their hold on the group, even on the brawniest, they attributed their "magic" to an all powerful entity that conveniently chose to remain unseen and who communicated only via its "chosen ones." This tactic has worked with the majority of humans ever since.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:38 pm to Kentucker
quote:has precisely nothing to do with anything metaphysical/supernatural.
Epigenetics
quote:you need to stop that right there. if your posts are any indication of your actual knowledge, then you have totally missed the point of christian belief.
From an outside view by a person who is well versed in Christianity
quote:oh my word. first, you lump all christians into this "miserable" category. second, this is called covenant confusion. it's indicative of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
I think Christians would be much happier, less conflicted and easier to get along with if they'd just drop the Old Testament and adhere to Jesus' teachings.
quote:ugh. here is a starter resource to help clear up your misconceptions about the ot/nt
No wonder the Muslims, with whom Christians share the Old Testament, are the pariahs of the modern world. If not for the New Testament, Christians might rival Muslims as the craziest theists on earth.
copan on OT morality
Posted on 9/26/17 at 7:41 pm to Kentucker
quote:you don't even believe this yourself since you advocate reductionism/scientism. from these perspectives, science is the endeavor to know the truth, to know and explain the universe absolutely.
since there no absolutes in science
quote:NO ONE CAN DO THIS. not one person. ever. as long as fallible people are the observers, there will NEVER be a truly objective viewpoint. it would help if you would study popper.
And it's my hope that you'll one day be able to view nature without the filters of religion and philosophy.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:08 pm to bfniii
quote:
you do know that ucd is an assertion, right? it has been in no way, shape or form empirically verified by science. it's completely and purely speculative. there are some signs that it might be the case but, it is definitely not without major, major problems
From a simple Wikipedia note:
There is evidence of common descent that all life on Earth is descended from the last universal common ancestor (LUCA). In July 2016, scientists reported identifying a set of 355 genes from the LUCA of all organisms living on Earth.
Did you know this? Do you even understand how profound and definitive this evidence is?
quote:
i've done no such thing at any point. i understand what science is...
Seriously, you don't. I don't think you have a science background beyond what was required for you in high school. You exhibit a bewildering misunderstanding of science.
quote:
you do realize that the more that research is conducted, the more it proves the impossibility of abiogenesis, right?
I can't imagine how.
quote:
there's absolutely no way to PROVE that life can come from lifelessness.
This is a good example of your ignorance of science. Even a basic understanding of biochemistry illustrates that life is a chemical chain reaction that is perpetuated by reproduction which is dependent upon a continuous energy flow.
quote:
even if we observed life to start, there's no guarantee that there were NO facilitating influences involved.
Oh, please don't bring up Intelligent Design. That's so boring.
quote:
the reason why we can't know that is because it is impossible to know anything empirical beyond this existence. any abiogenesis experiments only serve to further substantiate that fact, i.e. humans are influencing the experiments.
My goodness, you are such an absolutist!
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:14 pm to bfniii
quote:
no it is not and you have been corrected on this false view. science is the HUMAN ENDEAVOR to understand nature. that endeavor is most certainly susceptible to human vagaries.
I'm sure you're not qualified to correct anyone about anything. You're a theist bent on using science words to somehow validate that which can't be validated. Your user name should be Don Quixote.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:17 pm to bfniii
quote:
but with that WORLDVIEW comes a whole host of consequences. perfect circle perfectly outlined 3 questions that every viable worldview must answer; origins, purpose, destiny. atheism says that either life has always existed (not possible) or that life came from lifelessness (not possible), that we have no purpose (self defeating) and that we are going nowhere (highly debatable and unlikely given that purposeless life is self defeating).
Seriously, it's okay if you have a world view and I don't. I'd guess that we're not closely related so, no expectations from my camp.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:19 pm to bfniii
quote:
We evolved from a common ancestor
of which there is no proof
Well, there's nothing in the Bible about it so I can understand why you think that.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:27 pm to bfniii
quote:
that is a belief. i'm sorry you can't see this facile truth.
You see existence through some very cloudy lenses.
quote:
evidence to one person is not to another.
If it's scientific evidence it is.
quote:
moreover, hume, an empiricist, said that we can never truly know if one thing caused another.
You've never had an original thought in your life, have you?
quote:
mammals aren't sentient. there's no comparison here. but this sheds light on your worldview. you're more akin to non-sentient animals than you are to your own kind who know better.
My own kind? So, you're an animalist! I should have known. Bigot.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:32 pm to bfniii
lol Kentucker is bending you the frick over
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:48 pm to bfniii
quote:
which is a religion in and of itself. not an traditionally institutional religion but a religion/belief system/worldview for sure.
Not because you say so.
quote:
evolutionary ethics is nothing more than veiled relativism.
Not ethics, you ninny. DNA.
quote:
you mentioned psychobabble....
Well, I couldn't find a philosopher to cite so I just went with the thought myself. That would be anathema to you.
quote:
institutional religion maybe. abrahamic christianity, not at all
Yep, you're a theist with no background in science.
quote:
says who? that is a super broad statement that i'm pretty sure you can't substantiate
You don't have a clue about biology, it's clear.
quote:
that's not even ubiquitously true today much less always been true.
Bless your heart, you really need to look up the word ubiquitous.
quote:
i'm still trying to figure out what you actually know and how much is just blustery bullcrap
Well, I certainly don't have that problem with figuring you out. You're a theist who thinks he was given knowledge by a deity and that when you think it, it's right because you thought it. You are ignorant about science and the only reason you bother with the subject is to try and twist it into some validation of religion. Keep trying. However, don't expect any revelations. Science is independent of you and religion and the more you try the more foolish you will become.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 8:49 pm to CNB
quote:
lol Kentucker is bending you the frick over
This guy is fun! 
Posted on 9/26/17 at 9:09 pm to bfniii
quote:
Epigenetics has precisely nothing to do with anything metaphysical/supernatural.
For once you're correct. And metaphysical/supernatural has precisely nothing to do with reality.
quote:
you need to stop that right there. if your posts are any indication of your actual knowledge, then you have totally missed the point of christian belief
You need to quit being so bossy or I'm going to call you everything but a Christian.
quote:
oh my word. first, you lump all christians into this "miserable" category. second, this is called covenant confusion. it's indicative of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Well, you come across as very conflicted, and unhappy. So, there's that.
quote:
ugh. here is a starter resource to help clear up your misconceptions about the ot/nt
No, thanks. I'm studying quantum physics and I can't see philosophy/religion meshing well with the subject.
Posted on 9/26/17 at 9:26 pm to bfniii
quote:
you don't even believe this yourself since you advocate reductionism/scientism.
More evidence that you are illiterate regarding science.
quote:
NO ONE CAN DO THIS. not one person. ever. as long as fallible people are the observers, there will NEVER be a truly objective viewpoint.
Wow, you are locked tight in that box. Are you Schrödinger's cat? If you are, please don't mess with that flask of hydrocyanic acid. We're supposed to wait until one of the atoms decays and you'll mess up the experiment. If you're already dead, well, never mind. Of course.
This post was edited on 9/26/17 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:48 am to Kentucker
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:14 am to LukeSidewalker
quote:
If we evolved from apes or monkeys or whatever some claim, then how come monkeys and apes and gorillas are not still evolving? Why are they still a species? Huh? And to those that believe we originated from a single cell or whatever(the Big Bang), have you ever seen a newborn? Please explain to me how a new born raised itself from a single cell to be a grown human. I know some will claim to have answers, but to me, it's way crazier to believe in any of that crap, then believing in God.
I ended up in this sub forum by accident, but, I have to ask, this is tongue-in-cheek, right? I'm not reading the whole thread to find out. I see religious philosophers have become involved. So, I imagine we're arguing definitions now, rather than reality.
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