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re: How Do White People From Alabama Feel About "Selma" Here?
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:46 pm to genro
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:46 pm to genro
quote:
genro
There are no sides. You want condemnation of a particular "side" and I'm telling you that's a fallacy.
You are playing both "sides" of the Reconstruction time period by one, saying that the Feds were evil and were the cause of all of the lynchings while also taking credit for black Senators from Alabama and other Southern states as though it was a sign of enlightenment. Southern whites were gritting their teeth and biding their time during reconstruction till they could get back in power. No real question about that.
You are playing both sides of the argument involving Reconstruction.
1
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:48 pm to AlaTiger
quote:Agree 100% DuBois was the worst kind of Ivory-tower isolated carpetbagger. It sucks that his viewpoint basically won out. I have a paperback copy of that book in my office and I've read it twice.
I have read Booker T. Washington. "Up From Slavery." I like him a lot and like his perspective much better than W.E.B. Dubois, if I had to choose. His call for self-sufficiency and personal responsibility is much needed today.
quote:Great.
I am not a fan of lynching black people in history, though. I really do believe in due process of law. It seems quite American. BTW's views would really have no affect on me one way or the other. I agree with the Constitution.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:50 pm to AlaTiger
quote:Did not say that. Were the Feds not aiming to destroy the social order? Were they adequately prosecuting racial crimes? Were they instead stoking racial violence?
You are playing both "sides" of the Reconstruction time period by one, saying that the Feds were evil and were the cause of all of the lynchings
quote:Also didn't say that. I was just pointing out the fallacy of your statement in that particular post.
while also taking credit for black Senators from Alabama and other Southern states as though it was a sign of enlightenment.
quote:Wonderful.
Southern whites were gritting their teeth and biding their time during reconstruction till they could get back in power. No real question about that.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 3:58 pm to genro
quote:
I'm just talking about how certain institutions - the media & Hollywood, the dept of education - intentionally give an incomplete story. The result is we have a bullshite oversimplified good v. bad narrative.
Nah, I don't buy that completely. I'm not saying that there isn't oversimplification that goes on (hell, there's enough of that 20 minutes after any sporting event ends--it's human nature), but at the same time, the South was inndubitably a house of horrors for black people not too long ago, regardless of whatever bullshite arrangements "everyone wanted."
Curiously, those things seemed to either favor whites or the status quo.
Oversimplifying good vs. bad isn't a good thing, but neither are apologetics for a rotten societal construct. That's all I'm saying.
Obviously, all white people weren't beyond redemption, or change wouldn't have occurred in the first place. Conversely, not every black person was above reproach either.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:12 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
the South was inndubitably a house of horrors for black people not too long ago
Since you've now taken the issue on a regional basis, what is your thoughts on the lack of national attention to racial injustices on a national scale or the lack of attention and teaching of history when violence happened in northern and western states?
There were a great many riots and mass killings that happened outside of the south, but doesn't seem to get the notoriety or discussion that the South gets.
This post was edited on 1/11/15 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:16 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I think we agree again. I don't go out of my way to condemn slavery and Jim Crow and all the forms of racial hatred when I talk about it because I consider it a given here in 2015. I don't mean to make apologetics. As institutions they can be condemned, and if we want to find out how they came to be we can study the histories and social movements. It is wrong IMO to cast a net on a huge group of people and say "Why were they so bad?" They weren't. 99% of us (all races) are descended from regular people who did what they could with whatever circumstances they were dealt in life. People mostly believed what they were taught. No group used to be "good" or "bad".
So there's no need for any group-based perspective, guilt, pride, apologies, bitterness, or whatever.
The best response is the most common one ITT. DGAF
So there's no need for any group-based perspective, guilt, pride, apologies, bitterness, or whatever.
The best response is the most common one ITT. DGAF
This post was edited on 1/11/15 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:16 pm to Alahunter
quote:
There were a great many riots and mass killings that happened outside of the south, but doesn't seem to get the notoriety or discussion that the South gets.
Because the winners write the history and the North won. So all the things that happened there will never be taught and always be down played.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:30 pm to genro
quote:
So there's no need for any group-based perspective, guilt, pride, apologies, bitterness, or whatever.
The best response is the most common one ITT. DGAF
quote:
I think we agree again.
We do
Bottom line is, regardless of the sordid history (or quibbling about the degree of sordidness, which is a pointless exercise like you said), if you let that color your dealings with the other racial group today, in 2015, you're in the wrong.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:34 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Absolutely spot on. With hundreds of millions of people in this country, and with the diversity that exists, nobody can be held down or back, unless they let themselves be and those that allow what others think affect them are the ones that need to be educated and are the ones that need to rise above themselves. And this problem spans all races.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:38 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Since you've now taken the issue on a regional basis, what is your thoughts on the lack of national attention to racial injustices on a national scale or the lack of attention and teaching of history when violence happened in northern and western states?
There were a great many riots and mass killings that happened outside of the south, but doesn't seem to get the notoriety or discussion that the South gets.
That's a whole 'nother can of worms (yes, I realized I was the one who opened it
), but it probably goes back to the perception of the South dating back to when their economy was greatly buttressed by the slave system. I don't agree with Southern racial incidents getting more coverage, but it's similar to when another Bama fan does something crazy--confirmation bias feeds into the notion of the entire fanbase being lunatics, when silly behavior isn't unique to y'all.
That said, confirmation bias works the other way as well--people are less likely to act on violent discriminatory behavior when they're less expected to do so, unlike the south, where it was more of a fact of life.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:39 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
similar to when another Bama fan does something crazy
Great.. now Bama fans are racists.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:41 pm to Alahunter
Agreed. Circumstances can be more difficult to overcome for some than others, but I am of the considered opinion that socioeconomic status is the biggest hindrance/help to folks in the modern era, not just race straight up.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:42 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Great.. now Bama fans are racists.
Dammit, I was going for the Updyke-like stories
My B.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:43 pm to TbirdSpur2010
And maybe now we can get the OP to see that and my mission will be complete and I'll still have this personal white guilt because I said crazy racial things again
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:45 pm to genro
OP came in with a weird agenda to begin with, tbh.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:47 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
socioeconomic status is the biggest hindrance/help to folks in the modern era, not just race straight up
Absolutely. Which is why there is so much failure today. This aspect goes untouched by those "seeking to solve" problems. This one aspect, is affected by a diverse number of issues, and people are afraid to discuss them, as they end up turning into an 'us vs them' theme.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:48 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
OP came in with a weird agenda to begin with, tbh
I think it was to race bait to a certain degree. One thing I find refreshing about this board.. for the most part.. folks can discuss things without falling into traps and can use their brains, rather than end up like the thread on the movie board, with the usual defensive and offensive takes.
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:51 pm to Alahunter
Didn't even bother to click the thread on the movie board. I knew how that shite was gonna turn out
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:51 pm to AlaTiger
I wish someone made a movie about all of the race riots in the northern cities. It was a country wide problem with the south having most of the press coverage and it was the birthplace of the KKK which made it stand out even more. I wish peoe would look down the road ahead and not the past so much
Posted on 1/11/15 at 4:53 pm to Alahunter
As I demonstrated, just replace "white people from Alabama" with another racial group and you suddenly see how bigoted it is.
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